supercharger and trd 7th injector questions
06-30-2007, 05:49 AM
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supercharger and trd 7th injector questions
so, i've done the search, as well as read speedys 18 page supercharger thread, and at this point I know the factory fuel system cannot keep up with the supercharger, and guarantee long engine life.
I just ordered up a second generation s/c with the trd 7th injector. I see many a post saying people are getting all sorts of extra fuel controllers and many different electronics, adding wideband o2 sensors, water injection, and various other mods to go with their s/c.
will just the trd 7th be enough to NOT blow my engine up???? a truely bolt on application??
I'm not looking to squeeze out the most HP gains I possibly can (yet), and I also dont want to spend that kind of money (yet) on many more little black boxes. I also dont want to have to worry about the stock ecu trying to undo any tuning that I was trying to accomplish by using all the controllers and what not. I realize that the trd 7th is un-tuneable, and I like that idea (for now), especially if it means I wont blow my engine up.
so whats the word? any "must haves" that go along with the s/c and trd 7th?
or should I bolt it on, enjoy the newfound power, and worry about tuning and add ons when just the supercharger doesnt seem like enough?
oh, almost forgot, the truck is a 00 4runner sport, 5 speed (so no VB mod), 4x4, no mods at all yet.
ETA: how much of a pain in my a$$ is it going to be to put this thing on? I do have mechanical ability, just didnt know if there were any super secret tricks.
I just ordered up a second generation s/c with the trd 7th injector. I see many a post saying people are getting all sorts of extra fuel controllers and many different electronics, adding wideband o2 sensors, water injection, and various other mods to go with their s/c.
will just the trd 7th be enough to NOT blow my engine up???? a truely bolt on application??
I'm not looking to squeeze out the most HP gains I possibly can (yet), and I also dont want to spend that kind of money (yet) on many more little black boxes. I also dont want to have to worry about the stock ecu trying to undo any tuning that I was trying to accomplish by using all the controllers and what not. I realize that the trd 7th is un-tuneable, and I like that idea (for now), especially if it means I wont blow my engine up.
so whats the word? any "must haves" that go along with the s/c and trd 7th?
or should I bolt it on, enjoy the newfound power, and worry about tuning and add ons when just the supercharger doesnt seem like enough?
oh, almost forgot, the truck is a 00 4runner sport, 5 speed (so no VB mod), 4x4, no mods at all yet.
ETA: how much of a pain in my a$$ is it going to be to put this thing on? I do have mechanical ability, just didnt know if there were any super secret tricks.
Last edited by fullmann; 06-30-2007 at 06:07 AM.
06-30-2007, 08:57 AM
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Response in bold:
so, i've done the search, as well as read speedys 18 page supercharger thread, and at this point I know the factory fuel system cannot keep up with the supercharger, and guarantee long engine life.
I just ordered up a second generation s/c with the trd 7th injector. I see many a post saying people are getting all sorts of extra fuel controllers and many different electronics, adding wideband o2 sensors, water injection, and various other mods to go with their s/c.
will just the trd 7th be enough to NOT blow my engine up???? a truely bolt on application??
For the most part, yes it is a bolt on application. Most folks have no problems with it. The ones that experience problems either have timing issues, (if so, go with the URD AIC), or they installed their 7th injector incorrectly. The application is YEAR specific, with YEAR specific instructions.
I'm not looking to squeeze out the most HP gains I possibly can (yet), and I also dont want to spend that kind of money (yet) on many more little black boxes. I also dont want to have to worry about the stock ecu trying to undo any tuning that I was trying to accomplish by using all the controllers and what not. I realize that the trd 7th is un-tuneable, and I like that idea (for now), especially if it means I wont blow my engine up.
so whats the word? any "must haves" that go along with the s/c and trd 7th?
See above response. Here is a link to the installation manual with the year specific application and instructions:
http://www.customtacos.com/tech/index.php?article=170
or should I bolt it on, enjoy the newfound power, and worry about tuning and add ons when just the supercharger doesnt seem like enough?
Sounds like a plan
oh, almost forgot, the truck is a 00 4runner sport, 5 speed (so no VB mod), 4x4, no mods at all yet.
ETA: how much of a pain in my a$$ is it going to be to put this thing on? I do have mechanical ability, just didnt know if there were any super secret tricks
.
Installation manual for the TRD supercharger. Pretty straightforward.
http://www.customtacos.com/tech/index.php?article=45
I just ordered up a second generation s/c with the trd 7th injector. I see many a post saying people are getting all sorts of extra fuel controllers and many different electronics, adding wideband o2 sensors, water injection, and various other mods to go with their s/c.
will just the trd 7th be enough to NOT blow my engine up???? a truely bolt on application??
For the most part, yes it is a bolt on application. Most folks have no problems with it. The ones that experience problems either have timing issues, (if so, go with the URD AIC), or they installed their 7th injector incorrectly. The application is YEAR specific, with YEAR specific instructions.
I'm not looking to squeeze out the most HP gains I possibly can (yet), and I also dont want to spend that kind of money (yet) on many more little black boxes. I also dont want to have to worry about the stock ecu trying to undo any tuning that I was trying to accomplish by using all the controllers and what not. I realize that the trd 7th is un-tuneable, and I like that idea (for now), especially if it means I wont blow my engine up.
so whats the word? any "must haves" that go along with the s/c and trd 7th?
See above response. Here is a link to the installation manual with the year specific application and instructions:
http://www.customtacos.com/tech/index.php?article=170
or should I bolt it on, enjoy the newfound power, and worry about tuning and add ons when just the supercharger doesnt seem like enough?
Sounds like a plan
oh, almost forgot, the truck is a 00 4runner sport, 5 speed (so no VB mod), 4x4, no mods at all yet.
ETA: how much of a pain in my a$$ is it going to be to put this thing on? I do have mechanical ability, just didnt know if there were any super secret tricks
.
Installation manual for the TRD supercharger. Pretty straightforward.
http://www.customtacos.com/tech/index.php?article=45
06-30-2007, 09:08 AM
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Your 7th kit will come with a 160 deg thermostat and colder plugs. Not surprisingly, some folks that have problems with the 7th decide to stick with the stock thermostat, different plugs with different gaps, etc. Like I mentioned above, just follow the installation manual.
For those that have automatics, (assuming they read this thread as well), a "must have," would be the Hayden 679 trans cooler, (or some type of stacked design tranny cooler). IPT VB is also high on the list.
For those that have automatics, (assuming they read this thread as well), a "must have," would be the Hayden 679 trans cooler, (or some type of stacked design tranny cooler). IPT VB is also high on the list.
07-02-2007, 02:14 PM
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I have TRD Supercharger that I'm running along with TRD 7th injector kit, along with TRD transmission cooler. So far with almost 70k miles I have no problems at all.
-- Andrey
-- Andrey
07-02-2007, 06:13 PM
#5
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Along these same lines i am also looking to go SC in the semi-near future. and i was also woundering what i would need just to get it running and yet have the parts there for the mods that will come after...
07-02-2007, 06:45 PM
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Speedy asked this question some time last year, and after a lot of reading and research he put together the following timeline and synopsis on his supercharger blog. Reading his blog will save you time unless you feel compelled to do the search on YT or www.customtacos.com:
http://hooliganbiketech.net/sportrunner/
Gadget's page is also very helpful:
www.gadgetonline.com
Call these guys if you want more information:
www.urdusa.com
Short answer to your question:
1. Address fuel - stock fuel is NOT sufficient. Consider URD options or go with the TRD 7th injector kit and purchase the Walbro 190 LPH fuel pump - available from URD. With either kit, (comes with colder plugs and some other goodies), you WILL be able to run more boost by going with smaller pulleys if you should choose to do so in the future. If you are experiencing ping now or when you supercharge, you will need timing control - contact URD at that time.
2. Address transmission heat - Purchase Hayden cooler 679 or other similar design. Consider the IPT valve body modification. Disregard if you have a manual/5 speed.
That's pretty much it. The rest of the stuff - deckplate, ISR, headers, exhaust with 2.5" piping, etc will add power but are not really necessary per say.
Hope that helps.
07-02-2007, 06:50 PM
#7
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Thanks a lot, that helps!
I already knew i would need more fuel but didn't know if there was a stand out.
Already have a tranny cooler and the valve body mod will come later.
As for the rest of that most of it is already done (i have been preparing since i got it...).
So just need to get a kit and then find a deal on the actual SC...
Oh, i can't wait until the $$ is there for this!!!!
I already knew i would need more fuel but didn't know if there was a stand out.
Already have a tranny cooler and the valve body mod will come later.
As for the rest of that most of it is already done (i have been preparing since i got it...).
So just need to get a kit and then find a deal on the actual SC...
Oh, i can't wait until the $$ is there for this!!!!
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07-03-2007, 01:48 PM
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Will I have a problem with smoging the supercharger with URD's 7th kit because of this:
.
Legal in California only for racing vehicles, which may never be used upon a highway
07-03-2007, 03:02 PM
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It just seems like the URD fuel upgrade kit is so confusing. I need to buy a dynometer and 10,000 worth of tools to properly adjust it... lol
07-03-2007, 03:38 PM
#13
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This is from http://hooliganbiketech.net/sportrunner
Check it out! speedy is giving us a step by step play out of what he is doing!
Hope that helps, but afraid it won't as much as you need. your problems are one reason i will never live in CA. :-)
Check it out! speedy is giving us a step by step play out of what he is doing!
Thursday, March 22, 2007
Completed research and found that there were two main issues to solve with the Supercharger:
- the engine runs extremely lean at higher RPMs with the stock fueling system
- at high gear and low RPM there is pre-detonation (ping)
There are only three viable options to solve the fuel and timing problem.
1. Install TRD's 7th injector kit
PROS:
- adds ~30RWHP to the Supercharged 3.4L motor
- maintains any factory warranties that might remain on the vehicle
CONS:
- not user programmable
- can run rich at lower RPMs and lean at higher RPMs
- very expensive
- does not include any fuel pump, spark plugs, or thermostat upgrades
2. Install URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
PROS:
- adds ~30RWHP to the Supercharged 3.4L motor
- this is a complete kit and includes an upgraded fuel pump, cooler spark plugs, injectors, cooler thermostat, and piggyback ECU
- user programmable options for timing and fueling
- less expensive and a better value for the money than TRD's 7th injector kit
- allows for installation of a smaller Supercharger pulley for more horse power
CONS:
- will affect any remaining factory warranty
- tuning can be time consuming
3. Install URD's 7th Injector Kit
PROS:
- adds ~30RWHP to the Supercharged 3.4L motor
- this is a complete kit and includes an upgraded fuel pump, cooler spark plugs, 7th injector, fuel line with t-fitting preassembled, cooler thermostat, and piggyback ECU
- user programmable for timing and fueling
- less expensive than TRD's 7th injector or URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- easier to program than URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- easier to install than URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- provides some intercooling effect
CONS:
- I can't find any
Completed research and found that there were two main issues to solve with the Supercharger:
- the engine runs extremely lean at higher RPMs with the stock fueling system
- at high gear and low RPM there is pre-detonation (ping)
There are only three viable options to solve the fuel and timing problem.
1. Install TRD's 7th injector kit
PROS:
- adds ~30RWHP to the Supercharged 3.4L motor
- maintains any factory warranties that might remain on the vehicle
CONS:
- not user programmable
- can run rich at lower RPMs and lean at higher RPMs
- very expensive
- does not include any fuel pump, spark plugs, or thermostat upgrades
2. Install URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
PROS:
- adds ~30RWHP to the Supercharged 3.4L motor
- this is a complete kit and includes an upgraded fuel pump, cooler spark plugs, injectors, cooler thermostat, and piggyback ECU
- user programmable options for timing and fueling
- less expensive and a better value for the money than TRD's 7th injector kit
- allows for installation of a smaller Supercharger pulley for more horse power
CONS:
- will affect any remaining factory warranty
- tuning can be time consuming
3. Install URD's 7th Injector Kit
PROS:
- adds ~30RWHP to the Supercharged 3.4L motor
- this is a complete kit and includes an upgraded fuel pump, cooler spark plugs, 7th injector, fuel line with t-fitting preassembled, cooler thermostat, and piggyback ECU
- user programmable for timing and fueling
- less expensive than TRD's 7th injector or URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- easier to program than URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- easier to install than URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- provides some intercooling effect
CONS:
- I can't find any
07-03-2007, 03:44 PM
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3. Install URD's 7th Injector Kit
PROS:
- adds ~30RWHP to the Supercharged 3.4L motor
- this is a complete kit and includes an upgraded fuel pump, cooler spark plugs, 7th injector, fuel line with t-fitting preassembled, cooler thermostat, and piggyback ECU
- user programmable for timing and fueling
- less expensive than TRD's 7th injector or URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- easier to program than URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- easier to install than URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- provides some intercooling effect
CONS:
- I can't find any
PROS:
- adds ~30RWHP to the Supercharged 3.4L motor
- this is a complete kit and includes an upgraded fuel pump, cooler spark plugs, 7th injector, fuel line with t-fitting preassembled, cooler thermostat, and piggyback ECU
- user programmable for timing and fueling
- less expensive than TRD's 7th injector or URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- easier to program than URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- easier to install than URD's Fuel Upgrade Kit
- provides some intercooling effect
CONS:
- I can't find any
This is from http://hooliganbiketech.net/sportrunner
Check it out! speedy is giving us a step by step play out of what he is doing!
Hope that helps, but afraid it won't as much as you need. your problems are one reason i will never live in CA. :-)
Check it out! speedy is giving us a step by step play out of what he is doing!
Hope that helps, but afraid it won't as much as you need. your problems are one reason i will never live in CA. :-)
Anyone else in Ca have experience with smoging a 3.4l s/c w/ URD's 7th kit?
07-17-2007, 02:57 PM
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So I bought the 1st generation SC used and I'm looking into getting the URD 7th kit. I am going to ask a stupid question anyway, Should I hold off till I get the 7th kit ($ problems) or can I bolt the SC on and add the 7th kit later? I'm assuming on holding off because the 7th kit requires getting into the engine..
07-17-2007, 03:31 PM
#16
Contributing Member
Hold off for sure, why take a chance on hurting your engine just before you SC it for real?
Play it safe and do it all at once plus it willl work better.
I am in the safe boat, i want to get the SC but don't have the full 3k - 4K+ i need for it. So it won'y be happening until next year most likly...
Play it safe and do it all at once plus it willl work better.
I am in the safe boat, i want to get the SC but don't have the full 3k - 4K+ i need for it. So it won'y be happening until next year most likly...
09-01-2007, 10:22 AM
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The URD Supercharger Upgrade Kits are not CARB approved. Anything that is end user adjustable can not be CARB approved.
The kits will pass tail pipe sniffer tests just fine. They will pass "plug in" tests just fine. That is where they plug their computer into your and look for fault codes and check the status of all the internal monitor systems in the ECU.
We sell a lot of kits to Cali customers and have done so for many years. I have never ever heard of on customer ever having a problem getting his truck smogged in Cali with our kits installed. The only thing you really have to worry about is the visual inspection and that has not seemed to ever been a problem so far.
As far as tuning goes, our new URD 7th Injector Kit is super easy to tune and most people do not find a need to make any adjustments to it at all. What makes it so easy to tune compared to our original 6 injector kit is that it is only active in boost. The cold/warm start, warm up, normal driven and so on is all still handled by the stock injectors and ECU just like your truck is stock. Then when the boost starts to roll in and the stock fuel system starts to peter out, the 7th injector takes up the slack and keeps the engine properly fueled. The timing controller provides the needed retard needed to supress any boost induced spark knock.
Here is the tuning guide:
www.GadgetOnline.com/u-tune-aic.pdf
I recently made a 5000 mile round trip from MD to NM, CO, and Moab UT to do some 4 wheeling. My truck had the new URD 7th Injector System installed. The trip ranged from sea level to 12,000 feet and the truck stayed in perfect tune the entire way and ran flawlessly the entire time. No tuning adjustments were needed at any time.
Our kit does differ from the TRD one in a few ways. First we include our own Performance Calibration Unit that is end user tunable. Ours includes the needed fuel pump upgrade as well as cooler spark plugs.
It is also much easier to install then our original 6 injector kit. You do not need to remove the supercharger or replace the stock injectors.
You can download the install guide for the URD 7th Injector System if you want:
http://www.gadgetonline.com/urd%207t...%20install.pdf
If you have any other questions please contact URD.
Gadget
The kits will pass tail pipe sniffer tests just fine. They will pass "plug in" tests just fine. That is where they plug their computer into your and look for fault codes and check the status of all the internal monitor systems in the ECU.
We sell a lot of kits to Cali customers and have done so for many years. I have never ever heard of on customer ever having a problem getting his truck smogged in Cali with our kits installed. The only thing you really have to worry about is the visual inspection and that has not seemed to ever been a problem so far.
As far as tuning goes, our new URD 7th Injector Kit is super easy to tune and most people do not find a need to make any adjustments to it at all. What makes it so easy to tune compared to our original 6 injector kit is that it is only active in boost. The cold/warm start, warm up, normal driven and so on is all still handled by the stock injectors and ECU just like your truck is stock. Then when the boost starts to roll in and the stock fuel system starts to peter out, the 7th injector takes up the slack and keeps the engine properly fueled. The timing controller provides the needed retard needed to supress any boost induced spark knock.
Here is the tuning guide:
www.GadgetOnline.com/u-tune-aic.pdf
I recently made a 5000 mile round trip from MD to NM, CO, and Moab UT to do some 4 wheeling. My truck had the new URD 7th Injector System installed. The trip ranged from sea level to 12,000 feet and the truck stayed in perfect tune the entire way and ran flawlessly the entire time. No tuning adjustments were needed at any time.
Our kit does differ from the TRD one in a few ways. First we include our own Performance Calibration Unit that is end user tunable. Ours includes the needed fuel pump upgrade as well as cooler spark plugs.
It is also much easier to install then our original 6 injector kit. You do not need to remove the supercharger or replace the stock injectors.
You can download the install guide for the URD 7th Injector System if you want:
http://www.gadgetonline.com/urd%207t...%20install.pdf
If you have any other questions please contact URD.
Gadget
09-01-2007, 01:24 PM
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My worry about ebay is that I might not get every needed part. I would hate to have to deal with the hassle of emailing the seller, convincing them the part was missing and waiting a week for the part to arrive. I'd rather pay the 200 extra bucks and know i'm getting everything needed, and also knowing it's new and not refurbished.
