Do your homework, instead of just making stuff up to suit what you want to believe. Its a felony under federal law in all 50 states to remove your cat. Federal law makes it illegal for ANYONE to tamper with, disconnect, remove or otherwise render inoperative ANY emissions-related control device. State laws in 45 of the 50 states also make it illegal. Regardless of whether or not you live in one of the states that do not, it is still illegal, and a felony under federal law.

Its true that it is relatively easy to break this law- the EPA and other law enforcement agencies have been fairly lax about enforcing it on private citizens, although any business caught doing so pays a hefty fine. But that doesn't make it right. To be clear- it is WRONG and ILLEGAL to remove, gut or in any other way disable your cat.

Look at it this way- how does it make you feel if at work, one of your co-workers is slacking and forcing you to take up their slack? People who run without cats benefit from the cleaner air that has resulted since cats were made mandatory, but do not contribute. This is known as "free riding".

So you feel it is OK to be a free-rider?

RE your comments on global warming and climate change- do you think you are smarter than dozens of Nobel-laureate scientists and the decades of research and scientific evidence they have accumulated?

"It's what I believe, so it must be true, because my decisions are right, the facts must be wrong."

 

Burn him and his liberal theories, he's a witch!

 

this thread now sucks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

thanks to all you haters. DONT DO ANYTHING WRONG ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

Mike,

I run a 98, I eliminated the muffler, fabbed factory brkts for the stock hangers and left the cat. covertor in tact. It is loud but not over the top, (unless u ask my wife). So another words it's fine. It gave me better perf. (probably in my head) but definetly improved mileage. I logged results and when I had put 5000 mile through it I picked up 1.7 miles per gallon. Don't want to go down the tree hugger route but if you look at the inside of a cat. convertor it does very little to alter/baffle exhaust flow. Further it leves the ecm alone to do it's job with input from the sensors. I like to think I'm a pretty smart guy but I don't think I can out smart the engineers at Toyota (maybe Gadget can) but as for the rest of us.

 

"Reality has a liberal bias."

The tendency under Bush and his cronies to associate science, reason, logic and intellectual discourse in general with some sort of liberal plot to confuse "regular" Americans has been very damaging. It sets an example that you you can simply define reality to suit your needs, which then trickles down into some sectors of society. A disturbingly large number of people seem to think that simply asserting something forcefully makes it true, whether the facts and preponderance of evidence support it or not. Denial of climate change is just another example of this kind of Alice in Wonderland BS.

Thankfully we may be turning the corner on this great march backwards.

Back on topic, it is true that when catalytic converters first came out, they sometimes put a noticeable crimp on engine performance. But that is no longer true. A properly functioning cat does not restrict exhaust much at all, and running without one doesn't really do much except increase pollution.

 

I will leave the rest alone, NOT because you are right but because this is A: not the place to dicuss this (both this thread and meaning the internet as a whole) B: because i don't discuss politics or religin except with people i know.

As for the last part, dynos have shown that on our truck the removal of the cat = ~8RWHP at the wheels, WITHOUT a supercharger, more with one. I wish i had saved those dyno graphs when i saw them.

 

Well that is evidence rather than opinion. I'd like to see a larger sample size than one truck, and I wonder if the cat on the truck tested was plugged.

But in this case it seems you could very well be right and I could very well be wrong. (I can and will admit that when shown objective evidence.)

But I stand by my larger point about the lameness of removing catalytic converters from street vehicles. It is basically giving a big middle finger to everyone who does their part to reduce emissions by running one, and who perhaps takes a small hit in the performance of their vehicle in order to pollute significantly less. It is selfish, irresponsible and illegal.

I can respect your choice not to discuss politics and religion here. But the SCIENCE of human-induced climate change is accepted by a large majority of professionals who understand it and work in the field. This evidence has been accumulated from a wide range if different research streams over the course of several decades to the point where very strong consensus exists today. That is not political and certainly not religious, it is objective reality.

Science in this and many other fields has been "politicized" by the Bush Administration, which disregards it, edits it out of reports conducted by federal agencies, cherry picks only the findings that are consistent with what it wants to hear and censures scientists that try to resist this misuse and abuse of science. Perhaps it is "political" to point that out. If you think that represents good "leadership" I guess that is your right and your choice.

Lastly, this is most certainly not about "hating". I have nothing personal against you. I do have a serious bone to pick with things being asserted that are not true, particularly in regards to environmental protection, and with "free riders" who try to duck environmental laws or think they don't apply to them. Our trucks- mine included obviously- pollute enough without taking the g*dd*amn cats off!!
__________________
EDIT: I see you have no problem advertising your political views on guns...if you think this isn't the place for politics, what is that doing in your sig line?

 

That 8hp gain is actually from more then one truck. If i remember right I got that from Doug thorley, the header/exahust manufacture. They have done tons of dyon's and they said that on our trucks the avarage gain is ~8hp at the wheels. I remember seeing a few dynos to back it up.

The rest i will let go, you are entiitled to your views.

As for the sig, I am from Texas. enough said. lol

 

While a little optimistic, the power gained is still not within usable RPM range. What use is the extra 8hp at 5500rpm? None. And I'm willing to bet that there was a loss of power at lower RPMs on that same dyno.

You are wasting your breath. This nation is still about 30 years away from debunking 'creationism' at the national leadership level.

 

of course its the guy from oregon thats getting a little butt-hurt about not having the cat. I dont have one either, but then again im Turboed...

 

here is a qoute from RIVERRAT....

riverrat
Registered User


Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 91 I'm in the market for a mini-header upgrade for my 2000 4runner. I was planning to upgrade the rest of my exhaust- i.e. free flow cat and muffler- at the same time, but I'm struggling with the decision between 2.25" and 2.5" for the pipe.

hope this thread helps when you throw an O2 CEL

 

....."obviously- pollute enough without taking the g*dd*amn cats off!!"........









Interesting choice of words, brother. God should be capitalized

 

Actully on the dyno i saw you gained power through the whole RPM range but most of the real power gains WERE at the top end, it sure didn't take any from the low end though.

 

Few points I apparently need to point out:

1. No matter what I choose for an exhaust system, I will be running a street-legal, approved cat. FWIW, I've learned there isn't a huge benefit in an aftermarket cat, but even I buy one it will be a legal piece of equipment, and my truck will be street legal.

2. Many people have upgraded their exhaust on the 2.7 3RZ motor without engine code issues, all it really takes is keeping the pollution control system intact. Even if I have issues, they won't be related to taking off the cat, and I will probably be able to figure it out with or without this thread.

3. The reason the thread starter here had an engine code issue is because he took his cat off and ran his truck without it, when they are specifically designed to run with one.

Lastly, I'm sure I come across as a jerk to you and others who share your opinions that its OK to remove pollution controls on your trucks in the search for a few more HP. But I contribute where I can on this and other similar boards.

It is you folks who are exhibiting the anti-social behavior, I'm just calling you on it. Other people are negatively affected by your actions, whether these effects can be traced back to you or not. If everyone ran without cats like you apparently feel it OK to do, the air that WE ALL BREATHE would be much more polluted, reducing the quality of life and lifespans of a statistically significant number of people and greatly increasing health care costs. Why in the world do you think cats are mandated? Because the big bad government wants your truck to have less power? Or because there are valid, proven, legitimate health reasons that benefit society as a whole? Sheesh. And please don't give me the BS about living in a rural area where it doesn't matter whether you run with one of not. Your emissions go somewhere.

 

His cel came on BECAUSE his cat was bad, not because he took it off. He took it off because it was bad.

 

Welcome to the club of straight pipes, i love the power increase, but since i dont have 2 O2 sensors yet i dont share your problem. but keepus posted on what you do cause once i complete my 3.4L swap i will need to know cause i am going to dual exhaust straight pipe straight from some downey headers

 

i hope he is using a trolling motor on his boat...hate to see him polluting the water.

 

Hey TA, I don't mind a good old fashioned argument. But why don't you try READING before you post this crap? He took off his cat, his ECM didn't like it, that's why it threw a code: RE my boat: it does not have a motor:



And yes, 2-stroke outboards DO pollute the hell out of the environment, emitting 25-30% of their fuel, unburned, straight into the water, or air in the case of snowmobiles etc. Four strokes are considerably better but still a problem in our finite waterways getting used by an ever greater number of motorhead recreationists...

 

And he then posted this, maybe it didn't though a code prior to removing it but it was bad either way.

 

Dude, I do not doubt his cat was bad. I never disputed that. The guy is trying to find a workaround to running a cat because running without one caused his motor to throw a code. Case closed.

The points of my original post and all subsequent ones are that it is selfish, irresponsible and illegal to run without a cat. Vehicles without cats emit many times more carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides, both of which are highly poisonous to humans and animals.

Further, it is completely lame to say "I can't afford a new one". They are not very expensive, and regardless of cost they are legally required on street vehicles! The guy has $$ for a 3" lift, aftermarket tires and wheels, but can't afford a cat? Gimme a break.

I know I'm wasting my time doing this, but just FYI here's some info from a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) one of the most highly regarded journals for medical research.

Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). Vol. 288 No. 8, August 28, 2002

Article Title: “National Vehicle Emissions Policies and Practices and Declining US Carbon Monoxide–Related Mortality”

"Following the introduction of catalytic converters in 1975, CO emissions from automobiles decreased by an estimated 76.3% of 1975 levels and unintentional motor vehicle–related CO death rates declined from 4.0 to 0.9 deaths per 1 million person-years (an estimated decline of 81.3%).

An estimated 11,700 unintentional motor vehicle–related poisoning deaths may have been averted since the year of introduction of the catalytic converter."

Scientist are very cautious in making strong statements, but the study showed a clear linkage between introduction of cats and a significant drop in deaths related to vehicle-related carbon monoxide emissions.

The lives saved could have been your mom, your dad, your grandparents, your wife. We ALL benefit from the cleaner air that catalytic converters have helped bring about. THINK ABOUT IT.