DUCK01

Have any of y'all heard (what I believe is piston slap) on the iForce 8s? I've noticed that upon cold-weather startup (until the engine warms up - usually about 5 minutes), I've got a knocking coming from the engine. It's that "marble in a tin can" / "diesel engine" sound that's synonymous with piston slap.

I've heard it on Chevy LS1 engines (newer Camaros, Trans Ams, and Vettes) and Ford's 5.4L engines (many F150 Lightnings have it). All the Ford techs say it's no big deal, but I trust them about as far as I can throw 'em.

Anyone ever had/heard of this before? To me, it's not worth going to a dealership for because I'd have to leave it overnight and hope that it's cold enough the next morning to happen - not to mention the fact that I'd be charged $60 so they could plug in a scantool and tell me that I'm not throwing any codes. I searced, but couldn't find anything about it on this site.

Thanks for any help.

DUCK

Mohamed

Whhhhaaaaatttt, $60? Dude aren't you covered under warranty? Personally I never heard of that piston slap you're talking about, but there's always a first for everything, I suppose. I mean I have a "marble rolling around a tin can" sound myself every morning on startup, but's I know it isn't piston slap, just normal operation.

DUCK01

Yeah - you'd think that, wouldn't you. The crappy dealership charges $60 for labor to hook up a scantool and pull codes. You're talking MAYBE 5 minutes worth of work. Their claim is that the scantool is "used to determine the problem so we can decide if it's warranty work or not - the work needed (if any) is covered under warranty - the diagnosis is not." No joke - I was in to get my radio replaced and that's exactly what they told the woman in front of me. I almost fell out, as did she. Had I known that prior to purchase, I wouldn't have even bought my Sequoia because the next closest dealership is about 90 miles from here. I simply don't have the time to take my vehicle all that way for freaking warranty work. One of the main reasons I sold my old truck is because the nearest SVT certified Ford dealership is 100 miles away and I was tired of wasting my days driving up and down the highway to get simple stuff fixed.

As far as the piston slap issue, I'll go over to the Lightning board and find some audio clips so you can hear what I'm talking about. Hopefully, I'll BRB with some good info.

rugerm44

I had a tundra with the v8.2000 model.Turns out they put the wrong pistons in it.The lexus engine some how has smaller pistons.Just enough to make a difference.It also had a number one bearing making noise.Since they have been building them over here I have noticed the quality has declined.I had the first year 4 wheel drive truck and have owned 8 since then.Now they want to start building the 3.4 over here.When are they going to wise up.You can only live off a name and reputation for so long. Dont get me wrong I love em. I must I keep going back for some crazy reason.The tundra had 12,000 miles whe n I got rid of it . I should have made them put a new engine in it.Its just that I have seen some of the crap they do around here at the dealerships.Good luck.Try the tundra solutions website.Thats where I found out about the pistons.

DUCK01

Here is a thread with an ABSOLUTE EXTREME case of piston slap. Check out the audio link on the first post. My Sequoia has that sound (obviously not nearly as bad) in the mornings when it's sat out all night and is below 45 degrees. You can hear the "marbles in a tin can" sound during the last few seconds of the clip.
http://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...ht=piston+slap On mine, it almost sounds like a valve is sticking, but that's what slight piston slap sounds like. I'm just afraid it's going to get worse as time goes on, much like almost all of the Lightnings that have the problem.

Baiscally, piston slap is a tolerance issue between the pistons and the bore. High end of bore tolerance + low end of piston tolerance = room to rattle before the piston heats up and expands. The problem is much more prevelant on Lightnings because the pistons are forged AND have an extremely short "skirt" on them.

Here are some more threads:
http://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...p&pagenumber=1
http://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...p&pagenumber=1
http://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...ht=piston+slap
http://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...ht=piston+slap

There are TONS more where these came from.

I guess if it keeps up, I'll have to suck it up and take the vehicle to the dealer so it's at least noted before my warranty runs out.

DUCK01

rugerm44-
Is there any way to view that website without paying? I tried to sign up, but it won't accept my password. The email links to a $24 subscription fee.

Lefty

On my 2nd V8 (Tundra and 4Runner) and never had any problems. Went 14k+ on the Tundra before trading it in on my 4Runner. Have over 15K on the Runner...

Steve

Mohamed

Man, maybe I don't know what I am supposed to hear, but to me it sound normal, that annoying diesel sound maybe is what clutters in the way. I'll just shut up now...until I get to engine repair sometime next year

Something just came to me, if there is room sort of speak from your description of piston slap, can't you use a scope inside one of the spark plug holes and sort of wiggle the crankshaft, to see if it does hit the sides? Still, a piston slap, by what you describe it, should have nothing to do with OBD electronics, that's a mechanical issue, not electric, those d*cks at the dealer really need to pull their heads out of their a$$.

DUCK01

I don't see why the crankshaft trick wouldn't work. I mean, as long as the outside condition is the same as it is when the noise is heard (ie don't bring your truck into a warm garage to work on it), the piston should (in theory) have enough give to move around. The only problem I can see with this is that there's a chance that there might not be enough movement when "stationary" to make an audible noise - the piston may have to be moving somewhat fast to replicate the noise.

And yes, there shouldn't be any logical reason to hook up a scan tool to check and see what the noise is. However, we the customers have limited knowledge of Toyota vehicles and are not trained professional mechanics. Therefore, there is no way on God's green earth that we may actually know what we're talking about, so a tech must start from the easiest possible solution and work his way up the "food chain" to see where the problem lies. The easiest answers (and money) come from plugging a little cord into a port under your dash and letting the computer do the thinking, so naturally, that's the first step in any assesment.[/sarcasm]

Unfortunately, I lack the time, equipment, and space to do any of the digging/work myself, so I'm simply left here to bitch on the Internet.

Can you tell that Ford kinda ruined my view of car manufacturers and the whole "the customer may not always be right, but he's always the customer" theory? I guess it's too easy to say "What noise, I don't hear any noise" than to actually "mechanic" and find the problem. Plus, miles later when the engine finally gives, Ford makes $$$$$ on your purchase of a new engine and more $$$ on the labor to install it.

Oh well...still bone stock and holding firmly on to my warranty....

DUCK

zedex

Wow. $60 to hook up a scantool? Thats freakin ridiculous. At the Toyota here in Canada. I didnt even buy my truck there and i bought it used.(98 taco) They hook me up no charge, and give me a coffee. I would go elsewhere.

DUCK01

I would go elsewhere, but "elsewhere" means a 1.5 hour drive instead of a 20 minute drive.

zedex

I have read on this site that some autoparts stores will scan you for free. You might start a new post and someone will chime in.

rimpainter.com

Autozone will scan it free. Why would it be throwing a code for this though?

DUCK01

It wouldn't be throwing codes for this, but that's the first thing the dealership is going to want to do - Scan it, find nothing, make $60 quick bucks, then go from there.

rimpainter.com

How far are you from Richardson Toyota?

DUCK01

If it's in Richardson, TX, then I'm about 3 hours south of there. I'm just over an hour north of Houston and about 2.5 hours south of Dallas.

AverysDad

found this interesting article on my local tacoma territory site............ Got Piston Slap??


ive noticed my taco's engine does a similar thing after sitting overnight when its been really cold.........i just let it warm up for a minute (make sure the oils had a chance to flow good) then go on my way

DUCK01

Thanks for the article, AverysDad! He's correct that a few cold-start knocks a year won't do much damage. I'm assuming it's pretty common up North, but here in central Texas we only have a handful of days in which the temperature is cold enough to make a difference.

My main concern with all of this is "is it just a cold knock, or will it get worse?" Since I haven't been able to find much about piston slap on the iForce, I'm assuming it's just a "cold weather" thing. I was worried that the piston slap would start minimal (like it did with all of the supercharged 5.4s) and progress into something that was causing catastrophic engine failure. I saw too many instances of techs either denying that they heard a knock or saying that it's normal, only to have the truck owner blow an engine 10-15 thousand miles later and the techs deny warranty because of something goofy like an aftermarket air filter kit or a different brand of spark plugs (even though they knew it was the piston slap all along).

I guess only time will tell, but with less than 15K miles left on my warranty, time better hurry. I'll probably wind up taking my truck in to see what Toyota says. If they deny anything or say that the slap is no big deal, I'll get something in writing so that at least I have a leg to stand on if my engine blows post-coverage.

Thanks for the help and info, y'all.