Ahh... nothing to it, once he hooked it up to constant power!

 

hehe yea and not the injector power like i did



I got SMT6's in stock...just modifing the comm cable harness...will be done soon and resellable

 

Dear God! Looks like the Monster Thread lives again!

I've been out for a while but I have been thinking about dinking around with my tuning maps again. Needed to come back for some review. My SMT-6 has been working flawlessly for so long I forgot everything I learned setting it up!

Good to see Neil popping in. (Hi Neil)

I am surprised to see that nobody is running the SMT-7 yet...or am I mistaken?

 

Hey Pat!

The -7 tends to be overkill for what a lot of us are doing. Johnny (Weasy2k) has one up there in the cold and I think he's played with it some, but I'll defer to him for more direct input.


How's life been in the midwest?

 

Hey Mark!

Good to see some of you are still carrying the flag! A lot of things have happened since the SMT project was high on my priority list. I can vouch for the stability of the unit though! It has been pretty much set & forget. I recently started thinking about getting back in the game so I came back for some review. Keep up the good work!

 

Hehe i missed that huge thread... iw ould have loved to just have it and print it...good times went through there.

The SMT7 was running in my truck till some (*%(*@$(@)_(@#er'''s's's's broke into my truck and stole it They missed the smt6 so i was able to plug that back in and limp home.

The smt7 at the time was piggybacking the smt6 as i tested it with Perfect Power.

WIth that testing perfect power put out a patch that programed all of toyota 32 series crank triggers into there current and future products becuase at first it wouldnt work.

So at least i had enough time to do that, it was also Pat (Maison) Trigger maps that helped the development so BIG thanks to him! Even tho he prob doesnt even know it

I will be getting more SMT7's again very soon and testing the MAF'less setup. For now im focusing on my current 294deg Camm'd 7500rpm 5vz-fe to go into my MR2 as well as a customers 272deg cam 6500rpm Single Turbo 5vz-fe to go into his Mr2


Oh yea smt6 has been in my truck for 80,000km now RUNNING great...i love these cams!

 

Cool! Glad to have you back..

Hey... Since you're obviously sitting around bored at work like the rest of us , lemme know what you think about this:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/got-s-c-piggyback-wanna-try-something-77040/

 

I did see that discussion. It looks like the same old debate about tuning in closed loop. You can't do it. The ECU will recompensate the mixture back to 14.7 until you push it to it's LTF limit and then throw a CE light. I only know one way to tune this ECU in closed loop (theoretically) which is to take control of the output of the O2 sensor and modify the signal fed to the ECU. The SMT-6 is supposed to be capable of this but I don't think anyone has done it yet.

The other option is to trip the ECU into open loop at the point you want to take control. I use the fake WOT signal triggered by the SMT output thru a relay. It works well and I can tune the whole map in open loop if I want to but it is no good for you auto-tranny guys.

The other way is to trigger open loop by modifying the O2 sensor signal a-la the ESC method. Apparently no-one has put a scope on the ESC yet to figure out how they do it.

 

aye. I kinda' brought it up to raise the fkag to people that have been running piggybacks and not thinking down those lines.


Ummm... "welcome back Pat - wanna relive that discussion for those of us {HINT!} that may have missed it in the old thread?"


Yeah, I'm "waiting" for Johnny to get his scope back so we can look at the ESC1 output. I have a feeling that a noise generator spreading garbage within a 0.2 -> 0.9v threshold would do nicely.

 

I think I'm missing the hint...you really don't want me to go there, do you?

I'm VERY interested to hear what you find out.

 

haha perfect timing...
the scope arrived today!!

 

Sure... The "hint" was basically to say "hey Pat, I didn't know you were running something to fake the ECU into open loop! What'd you do?".


Me too... I have a lot of things on my list though. I have noise generators abound, but I got rid of my 'scope eons ago. I've actually though about picking up a 100mhz dual trace from eBay for various things, this is just another one.

Ya' know though - we "should" be able to figure this out through a bit of practical reasoning. I mean, if you were a sensor designed to spit a voltage between 0.2 & 0.9v based on the amount of oxygen in the exhaust, then what would you do if suddenly your chemical reaction couldn't keep up and meet the required sample rate?

I think you'd throw noise - or you MIGHT just throw a constant voltage. hmmm, that may make more sense - i.e., we know that the ECU samples at a predetermined rate. So if we assume that it _expects_ a fluctuating voltage, and then it sees, say, 10 samples in a row that don't shift... Do ya' think it may go "oh crap, the O2 sensor can't keep up - SWITCH TO OPEN LOOP! EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF!".

hmmmm... Hmmmm... HMMMM!!!!


Anyway... Finding open loop through the O2 sensor is incredibly intriguing. But I have a list of about 20 things (5 pert near critical) I have to do first - including replacing my tranny. oops.

 

you are thining along the same lines as me...
i figured the only thing it can do is speed up....as exhasut travels faster when the engine is under load the rate at which the O2 sensor changes voltage increases and eventually leading to the ecu noticing this and switching over.

Now thats as far as my knwoledge goes....hwo would you replicate that? Im not deep enough into electronics...always learning...

 

A D battery, a DVM to monitor voltage and a 1k potentiometer should do nicely.

DAMN IT! I WANT TO GO PLAY WITH MY TRUCK!

 

It is essentially a 5 volt feed sent to the TPS input on the ECU to simulate WOT when the SMT triggered output trips a relay. The original explanation post was REEEEEL long. I still have it archived somewhere along with the circuit diagram. I can repost it if you like...

 

Here you go..lets see if I remember how to do attachments...

 

eych-ee-double toothpicks. You should be able to test this in your driveway. Throw a decent OBDII reader on the truck, start it up, and hot patch the battery into the O2 sensor output:
Basically, if the theory is right, then I'd suspect that you could throw the switch, adjust the pot, and use the OBD data viewer to watch the ECU move to open loop.

Unless the ECU is balancing the O2 input against the TPS and MAF, I don't even think you'll have to break off from idle.


So you're actually faking out the TPS input - hmmm, I think we may be onto something else. If this O2 fake will work, it may make more sense than making the ECU think that the pedal's to the floor - dunno for sure though.

(I posted in-between your posts)

So cool... wow. Like you say though, there may be interesting side effects on an auto.


I WANNA GO PLAY WITH MY TRUCK!

 

yes i remeber the 5v tps output...BUT i tried that and my auto ecu took a ลลลล...basicly it makes the shift pattern go from normal to if you were WOT all the time. so even 1/4 throttle it would shift near redline.

This is why the esc1 system works better.

Mark wont the pot just adjust the voltage to the ecu? wouldnt that make it so the ecu reads the afr incorrectly?

 

Yeup, but... Well, the new theory is that the O2 sensor gets to a point where it can't respond to the changing exhaust chemistry fast enough so it basically just flatlines. Then, when the ECU sees that, it bails and kicks into open loop.

You're right in that the simple circuit above would just present a constant voltage to the ECU - but that might be enough to fake it into thinking that the O2 sensor can't keep up.

Maybe a better thing to try would be a variable rate sine wave oscillator with an adjustible output level. Then you'd tweak the output rate and level until the ECU kicks to open loop.

There are a bunch of online references for simple circuits... Here're a couple:

http://www.discovercircuits.com/O/o-sine.htm

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep....htm#phase.gif

Google Search

Side thought - you may not have to go through a sine conversion, but you'd at least have to create a triangle. The ECU wants to see varying levels, and if you just present a square wave, it's only gonna see all or nothing.

 

Lots of people have used the pot method to actually tune the closed loop. I dont think it will kick it into open loop....hopwveer your on to something about the o wave.

Lots of reading...ill get the scope on the esc1 soon.