I'm with DMG. The newer Runners and Tacos ride much more like a car than the 86-95s. Simply put, Toyota designed the new IFS for more on-road than off-road duties (Rack-and-pinion steering, coilovers. both provide more car-like ride and handling). In contrast, the 86-95 IFS is much stiffer, and geared more towards off-road.

 

One area of risk is the unbraced rear lower control arm mounts. The front drop mounts have a crossmember integrated into the IFS, but the rear is unbraced, which could allow the drop mounts to bend in.

What was Cheese thinking!?? He lifts his IFS, puts a ARB bumper with winch and then mounts a high lift jack on that LOL Then trys to climb rocks? Put that same setup on the Rack-and-pinion and it's going to brake too.

 

Quite right, mine is braced there with a homemade brace welded in. I also have an idler arm truss

DMG

 

I'll agree with everything you said, except for the last part, the 2nd gen steering geometry sucks for off-road. when I decided to modify my rig, the major factor in what upgrades I was gonna make had to include a smooth "car like" ride on the street.

If torsion bars were so good, why do ALL offroad racing vehicle use coilovers?




Let me see, I've got 35's, rack & ponion and my steering hasn't had any problems yet. If you don't think I wheel it hard enough, come out to the Tinbender Jamboree this April in Johnson's Valley at the Hammers with some of the most toughest rockcrawling trails in the country.

 

so your saying your "stock" suspension wasn't strong enough that you had to add in bracing, unlike the 3rd gen design that doesn't need any extra bracing.

 

>----- Original Message -----
> >From: <werty@swissinfo.org>
> >To: <toyota@4x4Wire.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:19 PM
> >Subject: RE: TOY: Problems ( fuel pump relay)
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Have 2000 Toy 4X4 , i have 2 relays in series ( fuel pump and circuit
> >>
> >> operating relay ) either will ruin your whole day if open .
> >>
> >> Hope this helps .
> >>
> >>
> >> BTW the rack/pinion steering cyl on 2000 ( '96 up ?) will need
> >>
> >> replacing every 30k miles.
> >>
> >> Toyota didn't figure how much stress there is on it ! The older
steering
> >>
> >> gear is far stronger .
> >>

 

That's one person's opinion, I still have my "original" steering rack with well over 100K and have had no problems with it yet.

 

Hey, It's all good!! I am not putting RP down Lets face it IFS is weaker then a SFA no matter what year it is. BTW Your rig looks sweet!!!

 

Bruce-

had to interject that your signature tag sums it up well:

"Don't as me when I'm gonna go SAS, I'm not! I'll build a buggy first...... "



a

 

Wrong
I had it on my 4Runner (Rack and Pinion) for a long time. Climbed nasty rocks in Moab, Las Cruces, AZ, and it never broke......

 

Everyone who wheels their IFS rig, know it's weaker than a SFA set-up, this debate is comparing the 2nd gen design to the 3rd. The biggest problem I see on the trails, is when someone attempts something that is impossible for their set-up, then breaks, I know, I've done it, busted 2 axles so far, but still have 6 spares...



It's the same tag I use at PBB, since they kept asking me when......

Off topic
That's because all the time effort to do a SAS properly on a 3rd gen, won't make it that much more capable. Your better off just building a buggy or a Formula Toy from scratch, then you can take full advantage of the SA's. My future plans are to build a low budget buggy and I'm slowly collecting up the parts.

 

I am still fascinated by what is considered wheeling and who is really hammering their rigs.

Most of the guys who wheel hard out West with IFS and two lockers break the occassional axle. I follow them on the same trail at the same time taking the same lines and my steering lasts maybe a couple trips. Heck, it has cost me obstacles during the last 6 or so trails I have done.

And to reiterate. Last time I wheeled with Schaefer, his truck drove home fine and my braced idler arm, as long as most everything else besides the center link, was destroyed.

Web wheeling is hard on my rig.

 

Well Bruce, I don't know if it was strong enough. I put it on before it ever bent. And your 4runner is badass but it doesn't exactly look stock either.

I do know that when I lived in Norcal and wheeled the 'Con quite a few times (in a jeep) I saw many 86-95 toys on the trail and no 95.5 up toys.


David

 

The steering and the frame mounts have not been modified, but after the Moab trip I finally got around to replacing the stock bushings with the urethane kit, then removed the rack boots to inspect the inner ball joints and install the Total Chaos heim steering kit. Actually the Long Travel kit should put more stress on the frame mounts and rack.....

the reason you see older Toys is simple, they are cheaper(purchaase cost wise) to wheel, since people aren't afraid to dent them up, but more and more you see newer Taco's on the trails. 4Runner aren't the best choice because of how top heavy they are compared to the PU's...

 

I know coilovers are the way for offroad racing....but what do these trucks run in the way of steering. I know alot of crawlers use the rock ram steering, but what about race trucks?

 

So far all the race trucks I can find seem to run the early style steering kit. I wonder if this is better for the quick stuff. Any thoughts?

 

I think the sticker on Bruce's skid plate sums it up nicely.

Nice one, hadn't noticed before.

 

my 88 runners ifs has been very good to me. In the 100,000 miles i put on it i have only gone thru

1 steering box
2 stock idler arms
2 and 1/2 sets of ball joints (long story broke one while driving almost wrecked the truck)
2 and 1/2 sets of tie rods
a cv joint seperated durning the ball joint brakage put on a new boot and ran it
never touched the t bars and fit 33x10.50
i spent too much time on the skinny pedal off road and cant aligin her with out a torch and a bfh.
I think the t bar set up is better as long as its not too rusty and lets face it racks are for chicks not 4x4s

 

holy thread necro batman...

 

......5 year old thread.