95.5-2004 Tacomas & 96-2002 4Runners 4th gen pickups and 3rd gen 4Runners

Engine Sludge Problem (w/ Pics)

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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 12:59 PM
  #21  
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Just made a new discovery. Dried coolant is crusted underneath the driver side fuel rail.
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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 02:54 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by mt_goat
use a good filter and cut it open after every oil change to see how plugged up its getting.
Any tips for cracking open the filter? I would like to open mine up after the next oil change to see what it looks like.
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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 03:54 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by mt_goat
I don't understand the water/sludge correlation? Is this something you've experienced FOG?

Might send off a sample for UOA, they will report water in % and you'll know if its a problem.
Combustion gasses consist mostly of carbon dioxide and water vapor, and contain small amounts of unburned fuel and other contaminants. Water and fuel vapors in the crankcase can react to rapidly break down and shorten the life of engine oil and contribute to the formation of sludge in the crankcase.

Ever notice the steam or water dripping out of your tail pipe when your vehicle is warming up. Some of that water vapor along with unburned fuel slip by your piston rings (blow-by) and are carried down into the crankcase with the oil being sprayed on the cylinder walls.

Every time the vehicle is driven a short period of time, it adds more and more water and unburned fuel to the oil. That's why if you do allot of short trips you should get your truck up on the highway for 15-20 minutes once or twice a week to get the oil hot long enough to evaporate the water and unburned fuel.

Just getting the engine hot doesn't get the water out, it has to be held at that temp with the engine running at a decent speed for a while to allow the water to vaporize out of the oil and then be carried out by the PCV system.





FOG

Last edited by FogRunner; Apr 3, 2010 at 04:04 PM.
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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 03:56 PM
  #24  
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Guys, thanks for all the suggestions so far. I replaced the valve cover gaskets and put everything back together. The issue is that it's running rough and it's smoking (white) near the passenger exhaust manifold. Pic is below. Any ideas of what's going on?


ETA: pic doesn't show smoke but it's from that area.
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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 04:14 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by FogRunner
Combustion gasses consist mostly of carbon dioxide and water vapor, and contain small amounts of unburned fuel and other contaminants. Water and fuel vapors in the crankcase can react to rapidly break down and shorten the life of engine oil and contribute to the formation of sludge in the crankcase.

Ever notice the steam or water dripping out of your tail pipe when your vehicle is warming up. Some of that water vapor along with unburned fuel slip by your piston rings (blow-by) and are carried down into the crankcase with the oil being sprayed on the cylinder walls.

Every time the vehicle is driven a short period of time, it adds more and more water and unburned fuel to the oil. That's why if you do allot of short trips you should get your truck up on the highway for 15-20 minutes once or twice a week to get the oil hot long enough to evaporate the water and unburned fuel.

Just getting the engine hot doesn't get the water out, it has to be held at that temp with the engine running at a decent speed for a while to allow the water to vaporize out of the oil and then be carried out by the PCV system.





FOG
Yeah, I understand that water is a by product of combustion and it gets into the oil. I could even work out the stoichiometric equation if I needed to. What I don't understand is exactly what chemical reaction is taking place between the water and oil to cause the sludge. Does it speed up the oxidation or something?
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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 04:19 PM
  #26  
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From: Oklahoma State
Originally Posted by bootown
Any tips for cracking open the filter? I would like to open mine up after the next oil change to see what it looks like.
I use a dremel tool with a cut off blade or a die grinder with a cut off blade. Some people use a hack saw. There are some large pipe cutters that work too. Just cut it around the base where the threads are.
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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 04:22 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by kev7706
Guys, thanks for all the suggestions so far. I replaced the valve cover gaskets and put everything back together. The issue is that it's running rough and it's smoking (white) near the passenger exhaust manifold. Pic is below. Any ideas of what's going on?


ETA: pic doesn't show smoke but it's from that area.
White smoke is a sign of burning coolant, does it smell sweet? Maybe related to the dried coolant you saw earlier?
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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 04:36 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mt_goat
White smoke is a sign of burning coolant, does it smell sweet? Maybe related to the dried coolant you saw earlier?
Good thought.

It has continued to smoke near the rear of the exhaust manifold on BOTH sides of the engine.

Sweet? I wouldn't say so.

Last edited by kev7706; Apr 3, 2010 at 04:38 PM.
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Old Apr 3, 2010 | 04:40 PM
  #29  
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From: Galveston, Texas
Originally Posted by mt_goat
What I don't understand is exactly what chemical reaction is taking place between the water and oil to cause the sludge. Does it speed up the oxidation or something?
When water is present in an oil for an extended period of time it will emulsify the oil and form a mixture which is much more corrosive than the two components alone which then forms the infamous sludge.

This is the same reason that A/C systems have a desiccant drier in the system to remove moisture. The moisture will mix with the refrigerant oil and form a corrosive acid and sludge that destroys the A/C system from the inside.

But in short it oxides the the oil which causes its PH to drop resulting in the oil becoming acidic which reacts with the other additives in the oil and forms sludge.


FOG
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Old Apr 4, 2010 | 07:27 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by FogRunner
When water is present in an oil for an extended period of time it will emulsify the oil and form a mixture which is much more corrosive than the two components alone which then forms the infamous sludge.

This is the same reason that A/C systems have a desiccant drier in the system to remove moisture. The moisture will mix with the refrigerant oil and form a corrosive acid and sludge that destroys the A/C system from the inside.

But in short it oxides the the oil which causes its PH to drop resulting in the oil becoming acidic which reacts with the other additives in the oil and forms sludge.


FOG
Thanks for the explanation FOG, makes sense now. You are a true asset to YT.

Kev...did you replace the PCV valve? Maybe some old grud in the PCV line is now getting dumped into the intake causing your smoke.

Last edited by mt_goat; Apr 4, 2010 at 07:28 AM.
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Old Apr 4, 2010 | 08:56 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mt_goat
Kev...did you replace the PCV valve? Maybe some old grud in the PCV line is now getting dumped into the intake causing your smoke.
Yep, sure did. I'm going to run it again and monitor the smoking to see if it stops.
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Old Apr 4, 2010 | 08:00 PM
  #32  
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white smoke is head gasket failure. Is there white smoke coming out the exhaust too, or just in the engine compartment?
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Old Apr 5, 2010 | 10:58 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by j-man
white smoke is head gasket failure. Is there white smoke coming out the exhaust too, or just in the engine compartment?
No white smoke from exhaust. Oil looked clean (free of coolant) when I drained it.

I still have some smoking near the exhaust manifold. It's also idling high, and running rough through the RPMs. No CEL, though.

Last edited by kev7706; Apr 5, 2010 at 11:00 AM.
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