FireMan

THIS IS A LONG POST

Howdy y'all.
Well, if anyone checked out my Headgsket thread earlier, you will have seen my pics of some of the removal of my 3.0. Since the engine is out of the rig, I figured, why not some headers and exhaust? Right?
Anyways, the bottom end i still immaculate. 130k and the cylinders look like new. Firefyter-Emt 's (Lee's) engine looked so perty that I will be going the same route and painting it, new vacume/hoses, etc. Ohh yeah, back to the subject. I have a 95' 4Runner 3.0 Auto 4x4. I ordered the ceramic coated headers, exhaust kit, and transfer case cooler/replumbing kit. bout 8 months ago, I visited Downey on the way home from a work trip and picked up an updated (at the time) price list from Downey. It reflected many major changes in the pricing and products that were either new or discontinued. Anyways, my price guide has listed for the things I am getting:
#17490 Exhaust kit (I'll be welding it ) $324.50
#17410-30C Ceramic Headers $444.23
#32910 TC Cooler/replumb kit. $106.65
total $903.38 + tax is $1010

Does this sound right?
I saw someone's post and they got thier Downey headers $50 cheaper, through someone else. :wtf:

Anyways, when I pulled my engine, the Torque Converter cam out with the engine (since its atached to the fly wheel). Do I have to worry about linning up the TC to it's original position?

Nor_Cal2ndgen

Did you not unbolt the converter from the flexplate when pulling the engine? That is bad bad bad.....I say this because it is possible to ruin the front pump bushing or even the converter itself. You will need to look over the converter snout and make sure you did not crack it. You will have to re-install it in the transmission before you put the engine back in. YES it has to be in correctly, if you "stack" the pump you will blow the trans.

MAKE SURE YOU AT LEAST change the front pump seal, as I am SURE it is damaged when the TQconverter ran accross it with all that weight.
After you put in a new seal, put the TQconverter in and turn it clockwise over and over and over until it drops into place. You should have about 2" of space between the converter and the bellhousing edge.....this is VERY important that you DON'T stack the pump!! If you don't know what I am talking about, please ask questions, I would hate to see your trans go out on you. I hop the picture below helps, as I made it up just for you.

Firefyter-Emt

Ouch.. Ouch.. Bad way to pull motor out.. Always gotta unbolt the motor conncetion from the tranny. (auto or stick) Do your self a huge, big major favor.. (trust me, or you may be yanking the intake & plenum off) replace the short harness from the knock sensor to the wire harness. It is under $10, and gets very brittle from being on the motor.. If you crack it inside you will have to tear the top end off again.. (I recomended this to someone here before, he could not get the dealer to find it.. He had to re-do it..) I do have a part # I could dredge up if I have to, let me know.. Also, make sure the harness is the correct one, they have 2 or 3 diffrent plugs..

That and make sure you use some gasket tack (that brown stickey stuff) on the intake to plenum gasket.. They can get torn eaisly during install. Put a thin coat on both sides of the gasket. I use "Indian Head" myself..

FireMan

On the TC. I really don't think much weight was on the snout. I had already had the heads off. I was "only" pulling the block out. I had the block chained and balanced real nice. I put a jack under the tranny to support it. Then with the weight just slightly off the motormounts, slid the block off.
I just inspected the snout, and all looks well. I post some pics in next. Please define "stacking" the pump. I think I understand, but someone else's advice would be good.

As for the knock sensor wire. Already got it. I have read before of people forgetting about it.

I am having fun tearing apart my engine. It is the 1st time doing something this major. I have done small stuff like valve jobs (on VW's), wayter pumps, T-Belts, alts, p/s pumps,brakes, suspension, ect. This is the longest/biggest project so far. I should have posted on the boards before pulling the engine. I'm in no rush, and like to take my time, but I hope I didn't screw anything up.

AS FOR MY HEADS :wtf:

The shop just called 10 minutes ago. 1 is cracked in 2 places between the valves. The other has one crack, same area.

My project just went from being $600 - my new goodies which came today, to $++++++. What sux is I was meticulous in taking them off. Even with the cams removed, it wasn't easy. But I followed the patterns to the letter/number. I bought the rig used, from my godfather. I later learned about a year ago that the reason he sold it was his son wasn't taking care of it at all. I have had to do things here and there just to keep my baby nice. I love this truck. I guess this is what you get for buying from family.

How much do new heads run. As far as I know, I'll need new valves, lifters, cams? This is how things normally go for me. Long, slow, and costly and good. Never fast, quick, cheap, and good. Oh well. Time to drink another beer.

Nor_Cal2ndgen

If you want someone elses opinion about "stacking" the pump that is cool, but i can tell you exactly what it means.

When the TQconverter is installed correctly, the snout drives the oil pump for the trans, as I am sure you already know this. If the TQconverter is not in all the way, in other words "on top of the pump" as opposed to engaged "IN" the pump, it is reffered to as "stacked" because thats exactly what it is. The converter snout is "stacked" on TOP of.....therefore the oil pump can not be driven and the pump and TQ snout wil obviously be damaged, along with the trans burning up. When you put the engine back in, make sure that the trans and block are butted together completely BEFORE tightening any bellhousing bolts. I know a lot of people use the bolts to "pull" the two together but this is BAD BAD BAD and you will not know if the TQ is stacked, usually until it is too late. Another way top tell if it is OK is once the block and trans ARE together, just make sure the TQconverter spins absolutely freely before the TQconverter bolts are in. You can reach up in between the pan and use 2 or 3 fingers to spin it through the flexplate. There may be a little resistance from the pump, but easily spun with your fingers. If it does not spin freely, it is "stacked". Hope that explains it for you.

oly884

Yeah, I remember that. I'll put it nice and simple, IT SUCKED!

Nor_Cal2ndgen

Why would you need to replace the cams and liters? (Buckets)
They should be fine unless you can see unusual wear or major galling. Your heads are also weldable....any competent machinist can do this, as the spot where you say they are cracked is VERY common in all newer aluminum cylinder heads. Sometimes, customers do not want to have repaired heads, which may be the case for you....in that situation, I could not tell you the price on new bare heads, but I bet it is a lot!

FireMan

Norcal, I didn't mean someone else's opinion. I wanted to hear yours. Thankyou. Thankyou for clarifying the stacked TQ issue. The TQ looks good. I put it back on the tranny and it spun very nicely. No wobbles.

As for the heads. What do you guys think? I'll be looking at $390 per head, reusing my components. Is welding a better option? I just want a few things:

1. A reliable engine that I don't have to worry about on trips to Baja.
2. A well performing engine (for the 3.slow anyway) that will not drip oil or other fluids.
3. Not have to take the heads off ever again. I want this to be the last time until I either swap it out, or buy another rig.

What price would having the heads welded run?
How long would they last?

Thanks for the info and quick replys guys. If I hear from ya before tommorrow, I'll cal to have the heads welded rather than replaced if the price is right.

Firefyter-Emt

Is that $390 a head for good heads (each) that have not been welded?? That is not a bad price if the heads are mint.. I paid $550 for my rebuild and I supplied all the seals. (second rebuild that is) I would be iffy on the welding just due to the fact these heads seem plauged with problems, I could be wrong, but I am biased.. You could allways pony up the big $$ and go with a pair of ported heads from DOA.

Good Luck..

FireMan

That's what I believe. It just sux that I'll be in appox $800 for heads to be rebuilt. I maight as well throw in a couple hundred extra and go with DOA. From what I've read, (and not much) having the heads done in themselves from DOA has seemed to not be worth the money. Then again, if ya gotta spen $800, whats $1000 in comparison for tricked out/new gear?
By the way Lee, what did it run you to have your block cleaned and painted? Did you do it yourself? Since you left the bottom end alone, I take it this was done with the pistons ect. still in the block.

Firefyter-Emt

Well, before I took it apart I duck taped it shut, washed it and the next day I hit it with a sandblaster. Then I blew it all off, pulled it apart and painted the block (after masking it) I then cleaned it with some good auto body cleaner and put a coat of spray can primer for motors and a couple coats of Ford Blue I also painted a lot of parts off the motor like the heads, that make a job just look so much better. I just have a hard time putting a motor back in that has not been painted up.. But keep in mind, you can see almost none of it when it is back in..

Here is the 2.5L I put in my jeep last Fall, this one you see all the motor!

I call the color "quirky" It just kinda seemed to fit the Jeep and the old school bare bones motor it has in it.. Kinda a fun color. (the valve cover is now hammertite gray bucause I scratched it up pulling it out a week later for a bad throwout bearing I had just put in with the motor.)

FireMan

So for cleaning and painting, you just taped/masked everything ie.cylinder holes, oil union, etc. then cleaned it?
What did you use to clean it. I have an abundance of engine cleaning chems. Did you hand wash or power spray?

Was the paint hand done or air gun?

Ohh, is there an easy way to get the oil baffle off?
After a few good wacks with the wood mallet the oil pan came off easy. I don't want to pry the baffle plate. Any suggestions?

papas87

Hey Fireman,

Have you considered a stroker crank since you'll have the engine apart? Just a thought, and does anyone know the HP/torque numbers the stroker would yield?

As for the heads, I'd go for the DOA ported ones and add their cams.

my humble 2 cents

take care,

Jason G

Firefyter-Emt

I masked off any openings with duct tape prior to taking it apart. I used normal spray can engine cleaner and a power washer. Once dry I sandblasted it then took it apart. Just seal everything, Exhaust, TB, coolant ports ect. I also used normal part store spray can motor paint & primer.

As for the baffle, to be honest.. I have not yet torn into the bottom end of the 3.0.. They are pretty solid.

My99

I know this thread was dead long ago, but I have a question regarding a similar situation. Due to the motor on my truck being locked up, I had to pull the torque converter out. No problems there. I put it back in, along with a front transmission seal. However, I'm worried about this "stacking" situation. I have some pics to show how far back it is. It spins pretty well, and I can hear fluid being sloshed around in there. But Definitely don't want to kill the tranny. So can someone look and see if these pics look "right" to you? The engine's ready to drop in, just don't want to mess up this crucial part. I've never worked on a car with an auto tranny before.

Thanks
















It's just hard to see this (the flywheel) being able to fit all the way in that case....

My99

Okay, I'll answer my own question, no, it's not on there far enough. I yanked the engine back out, because I was not content. Followed someone's advice and rotated the torque converter clockwise a few turns and suddenly, it magically popped back another inch into place.

This is in case anyone else has a similar problem, make sure you give the torque converter a few turns... it took at least 4 or 5 for mine, I guess it could take more.