CrazyDiamond

Just wondering...
I've got a reall well-maintained 2nd gen with manual hubs. Front bearings and hubs cleaned and repacked...only 79k on odometer. Previous owner almost never used 4wd. I have noticed a certain amount of additional drag when 4wd is engaged (not when hubs locked and only in 2wd). Just curious as to how much drag other people note in their setups? It's the only 4wd I've had, so I don't have a frame of reference.

Incidentally, there's not a hint of noise, the 4wd works perfectly, all joints are lubed, and synthetic lube in the diffs. Occasionally, from a stop in 4wd, it feels as if someone put a 1 inch tall stick in front of the front tires that I have to get over before it rolls really freely. It's probably just the additional resistance of the transfer case and extra differential to turn, but I was just sondering.

Thanks guys.

CrazyDiamond

Correction...I was "W"ondering, not "S"ondering. LOL. Damn fingers don't work well this early in the AM.

gwhayduke

The drag is caused by additional friction in the drivetrain and the fact that there is no center differential. That means that the front and read tires are spinning the same speed, even when you are turning. This makes the f&r tires grab and slip...hard to do on pavement (and hard on the gears) but pretty easy on dirt.

Paul H.

gwhayduke is right, and do not engage your 4wd on drive pavement and try to make a turn.

CrazyDiamond

Thanks for the input. Just wanted to be sure. One question, however...

Based on what you said, why should turning on dry pavement be avoided if I still have the stock open front diff (I know...I'm getting around to upgrading that )? It seems as if the open diff would keep any strain off the transfer case and tranny. Just curious...

Keep the input coming guys. It's always appreciated...I'll throw my 2 cents worth in as I can, too.

yellowspeedracer

the open diff in front keeps the left and right front tires from fighting each other. someone already said there's no slip in the center diff so that's what's causing the drag and can be hard on gears.

CrazyDiamond

I see... Even though the left and right sides can spin independently, there is still at least ONE front and ONE rear tire getting full power, without slip in the x-fer case (hopefully!).

Makes sense. Thanks. To conclude, though, so you guys do feel a bit of extra drag then in 4wd when not spinning the tires, right?

Thanks again!

gwhayduke

Go out on a dirt road and throw a U-turn in 2wd. Engage 4wd and do the same U-turn. It doesn't turn as tight in 4wd due to the lack of center diff and the front and rear wheels fighting each other. Also NEVER crank the wheels and hit the gas in 4wd. That's how you blow CV joints.

GRNTACO

I have a 2001 and when it is in 4low there is a noticeable amount of drag, not so much in 4hi..........well the engine does bog down more in 4hi.

The drag will be noticeable even if you are not turning or trying to spin the tires. There is more friction so when that 22RE is turning the T-case, front drive shaft, then ultimately the front diff and tires there is going to be that feeling of drag.

If you ever decide to lock the diffs you will have a real hard time turning, even on dirt. With the wheel turned, trying to get it to go requires some extra gas and a bit more clutch work to get it to go without stalling.

CrazyDiamond

LOL. I've worked on enough cars to know not to dump full torque into a CV joint at a 45 degree angle But, I guess there are alot of people who don't understand that, so it's good that you mentioned it.

BTW, does anyone know of a measurement for the maximum CV joint drop angle that is desired? I cranked up my torsion bars (approx 1.5" lift) about 10k miles ago and it's been great with no settle thus far and great on and off road manners. I've heard a few ballpark guides as far as distance from rim to edge of fender, but I was wondering if a better measurement would be the CV joint angle...kinda like the recommended driveshaft-pinion angle for rear-ends. Do any specs for that exist?

Just wondering...as usual. (P.S. I'm NOT considering trying to get a 5" lift from my torsion bars...LOL...just curious.)

CrazyDiamond

Oh, and I'm putting my Centerforce Dual Friction clutch on this weekend. All I've heard is good. Any more input from those who have used it? I'm just dying to feel the difference...

Mrs. Crash

I too was going to ask about this although mine is a first gen. I've only had mine for close to two years. This will be my second winter season so last year I had noticed a really hard pull to the right when engaged in 4wd. If I lived somewhere where I kept my truck in 4wd alot I'd have huge arm muscles by winters end. The drags I am reading about is that only when you first engage the 4wd or the whole time it's in 4wd? Mine is the whole time.
Crash drove mine the other day and asked if I had unlocked my hubs from a time before. I said I thought I had so he threw it in 4wd to check and I'm glad he was holding the wheel cause I'd have probably ended up in a ditch with the amount of pull it had.

CrazyDiamond

You may have a seized CV joint on the right side, or a bad axle housing bearing on the right. It wouldn't be the wheel bearing because it only happens when in 4wd. Also, not that either of these problems would likely cause a nasty grinding or squeeling sound, so try it again at slow speeds with someone standing outside the car and see what you hear.

CrazyDiamond

In my previous post, I meant "Also, NOTE that either..." Sorry!

Mrs. Crash

Other then the hard pull on mine you don't feel or hear anything.

CrazyDiamond

Hmmm...I would check the CV joint on the right side and make sure it's not about to seize. I DEFINITELY wouldn't engage the 4wd due to risk of major drivetrain damage. Let me think about it some more and I'll see what other sources I can think of...that's an interesting problem.

BTW, did it come on suddenly, or was is gradually worsening?

Mrs. Crash

Sorry i've been away from the computer some the last couple days. No We noticed it last year when we bought it.

Mrs. Crash

ok maybe this sounds weird but someone suggested that since I have manual hubs that maybe after locking them I am getting such a hard pull cause the drivers side isn't actually engaging? Is that a possibility???

jimbo74

if your hub is bad it is a possibility.. however other factors can come into play also.. one wheel in an open diff will most of the time get all the power, and that could be the cause of the pull....

most times in a rwd 2wd vehicle, with an open diff, the vehicle will have the right rear tire get most of the power.. i dont exactly know why this is, but there is a reason for it...

CrazyDiamond

Crash...very possible. The only problem is that if the hub doesn't engage, it is seen to the differential as if the left wheel is spinning (just like jacking up the left side of your truck and putting it in gear...the left wheel will get most of the power with an open differential). SO, theoretically at least, if the left hub is not engaged, the LEFT wheel will get most of the power and the right shouldn't pull like that. It's all because of the setup of an open differential. Still could be a bad hub, and other factors may be in play that I'm not accounting for. Unfortunately, by the way you're describing the harshness of the pull, it sounds like a good look at the hubs and CV joints is warranted.

Adam