kimchee

So yesterday I installed the NGK 3452s while i was at it I cleaned my throttle body and did the free FMU mod. i also cleaned the maf one more time.

now i get the dreaded hg/lr ping!!!.
NEVER had the problem before.



this was my set up before:
TRD SC
7th injector
amsoil filter
stock everything else

so the only thing thats changed are the plugs. i gapped them at .034...the old plugs i pulled were so worn they were gapped bigger than my gapper goes. they also had tiny spots all over the insulator but appeared normal in every other way. are the spots normal?

since they appear to be normal with the tanish color and no damage elsewhere should i continue to use these plugs or is it still a good idea to use the 3452s?

i ordered a walbro fuel pump so hopefully that takes care of the pinging

david

Reed23

If its pinging I would so that the plugs are burning hotter therefore youu need to upgrade your gas, I take it you are fuel injected right?

CTB

Well, he must either drive a 3rd Gen 4Runner or Tacoma, so yes, I bet he is fuel injected!

MTL_4runner

First of all don't play with the gap of the plugs out of the box. They are correctly gapped as they come from the factory. Also check you did not damage an electrode in the process (it is easy to bend one during install if you are not careful). Here, check out this thread: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...bent+electrode

Also just try getting a set of stock plugs and install those. I am not sure how the colder plugs will be affected by the 7th injector. I would think the fuel pump would only cure a high rpm ping but I could be wrong.

Phil

Not necessarily. All it takes is one bump to throw them off. For me it has not been uncommon to have to adjust.

I always check the gap.

MTL_4runner

Read this thread:
https://www.yotatech.com/showthread....=bent+electrode

It is usually blatantly obvious if they are damaged out of the box.
More often if they are damaged, it is the installer that does so.
A quick visual comparison is all it takes.

Dual electrode plugs are very tough to measure gap and adjust.
They are much different from their single electrode bretheren.

kimchee

well the 7th injector kit instructions call for changing plugs to one step colder. i just put it off for a while due to some success people were having with stock plugs on this board.


the only reason i decided to change them was to see if they would cure the strange surging issue i am having.

TRD recommends the Denso IK20s that come pregapped at .044. The instructions say to gap them to .032
The NGK 3452 come pregapped at .044 as well but the box says to gap them before installation.


I gapped the plugs the night before using a wire gapper and i double checked them all during install. I am 99.9 percent sure they are gapped properly and that there is no damage to the electrodes.

The car idles and runs great even at WOT. i still have the surging issue which i believe is the fuel pump problem. but this nasty pinging makes me wonder.

doesnt make sense that goin a step colder would induce pinging and the free fmu mod didnt even help.

i guess ill just wait for the pump to arrive.

AFP520

i have the denso irridiums in my 5vz.. work very very good... those plugs you got def have to be hotter...

koda4

There is a person on the Tacoma Territory Forum that is supercharged with the 7th injector and it sounds like he is experiencing pretty bad surging.

You both may have the same problem and it would be nice to know what is causing it.

Is there a problem with the 7th injector kit that is causing the surging? I would like to know because I have the 7th injector but it is not installed yet.

Here's the link to that thread.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/...&msg=103436.11

koda4

AFP520

honestly, trd doesnt know squat about anything.. they just slap their name on whatever will sell... URD's fuel upgrade kit is 10 times better than the 7th injector could ever be... its all about warranty though...

DennisDawg

Yep, that is me with surging from 1800 to 3000 and very loud knock and ping at 3000 while in gear (auto). In neutral, surging at maybe 2800 and above. Lots more details in the TTROA thread. However, the truck is nearly undrivable. The surging is enough to be noticed, heard and annoying. The truck can’t get on the freeway. It is like the fuel is way lean or the timing is way off. I am not sure it is the 7th Injector at all. I’m going to poke around more tonight.

As for the Free FMU mod, is this something that should be done with the 7th Injector, rather than just the S/C as it was tested? You might check on putting the connection back to the intake silencer and checking for any and all vacuum leaks. A mild surge might be the engine trying to compensate for the lean caused by a leak . . .

Anyone with ideas on my problem (the one with my truck), please, speak up. <G>

DennisDawg

I do not think so. I took out my 7th Injector Kit and it is still not working right. Same as before.

The 7th Injector kit works fine, made my truck plenty fast!! Something else is wrong with mine. Go ahead and install your kit.

I did a lot tonight . . . got no place . . . it is in the thread on TTORA, lots of data . . .

kimchee

i installed the walbro pump today. what a pain in the ass it was. it would have been ten times easier if i had a second set of hands when i was re mounting the fuel tank. I can hear the whine of the pump at idle. kinda irritating but ill deal with it.


anyhow ive put 160 miles on it in the last 4 hours. surging seems to be going away but cant be sure. pinging was still there but id imagine the ecu is still in the learning process.

if the pinging doesnt go away after another 100 miles im going to regap the plugs to .044. if that doesnt help im going to try different plugs. only reasoning for this is that the only thing i changed before the pinging were the plugs.

but doesnt seem to make sense that plugs would do this.

and a question for u mechanically inclined people....

on the ngk 3452 dual ground plugs...the ground electrodes have a curved tip. the sides of these tips are pretty sharp. arent these potential hot spots? The sides are also closer to the center electrode then the middle of the curved area. when i gapped them to .034 the sides of the electrodes had the correct gap but the center is most like at .040 or so does that matter?

foxtrapper

No, you said you also cleaned your throttle body, cleaned your maf sensor, and modified the FMU. All of those other mods can result in improper sensor responce and pinging. Don't just assume it's the plugs, you did a number of other things as well.

AFP520

my denso irridiums are wierdly gapped.. one side is .032 and i dunno what the other side was.. but it was higher.. i honestly dont think the plugs make it ping... and i dont remember.. did u do injectors too? changing just the fuel pump probly isnt gonna help get more gas thru if the injectors are the same size as before

MTL_4runner

The spark will follow the path of least resistance so the closest part of the electrode will conduct the spark. I really doubt that the plugs are causing your problems but I could be wrong. Have you tried stock all the way to 2 steps colder?

Have you installed the TRD thermostat that came with the 7th injector kit? (may help)

It is definately a lean condition causing the pinging and surging (the surging is just the engine management kicking in to minimize the lean condition). You might also have the cat converter tested at an exhaust shop (they will drill a hole on either side of the cat and insert a fitting an take a pressure reading across the converter.......above a certain psi it will be deemed plugged and should be replaced.......then when they are done with the diagnosis, the holes will be welded shut). It works very well and is certainly worth looking at.

You may want to get an OBD II meter to help with the diagnosis. There are either PC based like this www.obddiagnostics.com one that uses a laptop to a Palm PDA based version like I have in my signature.