Wes Whitmore

I have been reading posts and searching on lift kits for a while now. I finally think it is time to dump some cash in my 98 4runner SR5 5 speed, but I just have a few issues that you guys can clear up for me. Bear in mind that I don't do any off roading, and even if I do get bit by the bug, probably won't go more than once a year. I don't know what I am doing out there, and driving though an open field ramping over small humps, or playing in a mud pit would probably enterest me more than climbing rocks. Of course, I have never tried it. In the end, this is a daily driver (80 miles a day), and I like the relatively good handling of the stock 4runner. I don't haul more than 200 lbs in it at any given time, minus a passenger or two. I'll take any road handling improvements that I can get though. I try to be realistic, and know that it isn't going to handle as good as a car does, but it isn't bad.
I like the look of the lift though. 3" is great, but more than I need. I haven't found a bunch of info about road handling with the SAW/OME kit with either OME soft shocks, or bilstiens. I woudl figure that the increased spring rate would help, but the 3" of lift makes for a higher center of gravity. Even with a Addco sway bar in front and rear, i don't know if it would be an improvement over stock. SOmeone fill me in on this one.
I read Gadget's page, and was very intruiged with is 1" progressive lowering springs and Bilstien shocks, and the front and rear sway bar. It's a more restrained look, but maybe the handling is truely awesome. It makes more sense that it would handle on the street much better than stock. I don't know the spring rates, and I don't know how big of a tire I can run on a 16" wheel. I might have to PM Gadget directly since he is the only one I know who actually lowered his 4runner.
I am really just looking for a way to get a little better handling out of a 4runner. I would love to raise it if it somehow actually improved the ride. Maybe the stiffer springs is the key. I am all ears to what would work best for my needs. I don't want to make it a street truck at all, by the way.
Oh, my last thought was to get the 1" raising springs from performance products, and possibliy doing a body lift. That would give me at least 2" of lift, and would be fairly cheap and easy to do. But then I read about how people are not liking the performance springs very much, so that idea is out of the window.

Thanks,
wes

Good Times

well if you're looking to lift, (i.e. raising) then look into Cornfed Suspension. (www.cornfedsuspension.com)

With these spacers you can go 1", 1.5", 2".... 3" you get the picture Whatever size you want, you can order. Also it'll retain the stock feel but will get abit stiffer (but very minimal).

Ofcourse if you lift it, your cog will go up so that's something to consider.

If you're considering to lower the 4runner then I really can't help ya much as I'm not well informed in that area. I'm pretty sure it'll handle much better as the COG is lower. But then again, the ride could get harsh.

Good luck

User 051420

I dont think you'd wanna do spacers alone if you want better handling. You'll still have the stock springs. I think it's better to do the 1" LIFT springs, and maybe a spacer later on if you want more height.

Thats kinda what I told you in my email, but a little different.

Keep in mind, this is all just my logic and opinion. I'm not an expert!

Wes Whitmore

I need to do a little more research. I see people doing it so many different ways, and all with different intentions and goals. I really don't want to lower a 4wd, if you know what I mean. I love the look of the raised runners (especially gaps), but I am learning just enough to get in trouble here. Its a yotatech education, and the info is scattered!
I just dont like the idea of spacers for some reason, but everyone seems to have them. Logic tells me that if you use a spacer, then you are 1 or 2 inches out of the normal floating zone of the shock. The good thing is that you haven't compressed the spring. So I guess if the shock can take the extra travel, it really isn't that bad of a thing.
Lastly, getting a coilover on the front sounds ideal, but if you can't get them on the back, I don't think it would offer much more to me than if I just get the right spring and shock for the front in the first place. Once I get it all leveled out in the front, I wouldn't want to change it because it would be unlevel. I am probably missing somethign here too.
Thats about all I got right now. It seems like all I really need is a 1" lifting spring with slightly higher spring rate, and a good quality shock that works its best 1" longer than stock. Then I can add the sway bars, and as big of a tire I can get on the 16" tech 1s that I have been eyeing. With only 1", I doubt it will go much more than stock without getting into the rubbing issues, which I want to avoid completely.
Thanks!
Wes

foxtrapper

Raising a vehicle is a very bad thing to do for better street handling. I would strongly encourage you not to do this.

Shocks
Good shocks are important. Your rig is a 98, so if you're running the original shocks, they are pretty well dead. Best is Koni of course, but they are god awful expensive. I personally have found KYB to be an excellent street and mild performance shock for the money. Bilstein is also an excellent shock, albet more expensive then the KYB. If you want a soft street feel, I'd recommend the Monroe Sensa-Trac. It performs better then the oem units, while still keeping a very supple smooth ride.

Tires
Very important. Switch from truck tires to street tires, and go with a lower profile to decrease sidewall flex. Truck tires are for heavy loads and off road. Street tires have softer side walls and stickier tread. Buy a performance street tire and you can really start zinging around curves and such. Sumitomo has some very good street performance tires at low prices. The HTR4 is quite good, and has some grass field capabilities. The HTRZ series is more performance oriented, with less grass field capabilities. Kumho is also another tire maker with excellent performance tires that aren't expensive.

Sway bars
A cheap thing to do here is to simply put urethane bushings in the endlinks of the stock front bar. This only costs about $10. Best thing to do is to install a matched set of performance swaybars front and rear. You can do either indivually and get good results, but the best results are from doing both ends. This is one of those things that works wonders, but requires good tires to take advantage of it.

At this point, you'd have a big ole 4Runner that would be capable of embarassing a ricer on a twisty back road, that would ride comfortably, and still be capable of driving into a field. Stay out of mud puddles with those street performance tires though.

There are other things you can always do. +1 or +2 wheel packages, urethane suspension bushings, optimized alignment, heavier lower springs, etc. But doing the things I outlined above will give you tremendous bang for the buck in the street performance arena.

linhsy

foxtrapper, I currently have the Stock tires(All seasons) on my Rig. Will they provide better handling On-road if I get the street tires which you mentioned above?...If that the case, I want to have another set of tires in Spring, Summer and Fall. Then, I will swith them back to the stock tires in the Winter?

Wes Whitmore

Do they make a 265/70/16 street time that has a super stiff sidewall? I am with you on the traction of the street tire, but I just can't but a low profile on a 4runner without cranking up the bling factor and doing a +2 wheel, which is not the look I am going for.
Wes

BT17R

Until you decide which way you'll go, experimenting with tire pressures can help. I'd start raising pressures in +2 lb. increments while maintaining factory FF/RR differential until hitting your sweet spot. IIRC, on my '03 that became 38 psi cold all around, or about +6 from factory spec.

Alternatively, if there's anything like the 4th Gen X-REAS system available aftermarket, I'd go in that direction, or look into a retrofit. It's very effective without the harsh ride characteristics associated with stiffened springs, shocks and bushings.

foxtrapper

You've got some mixing going on there.

An all season tire is designed to provide some winter traction in snow on paved roads. Not to be confused with an AT truck tire, which is designed to provide All Terrain traction, which would include dirt trails.

Some of the tires I mentioned are all season. The HTR4 for example. However, the degree of all seaon varies. As a general rule of thumb, the more "performance" oriented the tire is, the less winter snow capability it has. That is not a hard and fast rule.

I personally tend to run dedicated winter snow tires where I live because we get enough snow to justify it in my opinion. This also allows me to run a more performance oriented tire in the fair weather season. The catch is really high performance tires wear out quickly, and aren't cheap. Look at the wear rating to get an idea of how fast a tire is going to wear out. The numbers aren't absolute, but they allow you to compare tires fairly well.

Also, do not forget about rain. Really aggressive performance tires sacrifice rain traction. This is also a problem with chunky tread truck tires. But it's probably into the performance tire arena well beyond what you're interested in. Still, it's good to be aware of it.

http://www.tirerack.com is an excellent place to go to learn about specific tires and what they are like. I think each of the ones I mentioned are available from them, and have a lot of information available about them in the form of feedback from people that have purchased them.

foxtrapper

Why do you want a super stiff sidewall? A lot of sidewall stiffness comes from the tire pressure you run. You can do a whole lot of tuning by tweaking tire pressure. This tuning not only affects handling but ride and load capacity.

I did a quick search on tirerack for those dimensions and came up with three hits.
Yokohama AVS S/T which is a sport truck tire. I've run a number of Yokohama tires over the years, and they tend to be very good tires. That tread design tends to work very well in performance applications. It's got a decent review rating overall.
Bridgestone Dueler H/P I've run Bridgestones, and can't say I've been real happy with them. The rubber compound tends to be very hard. These tires with the center ridge would be prone to hydroplaning I'd expect. It's got a decent review rating as well.
Firestone Indy 500. This is the most all season of the bunch. I know nothing of the tire. The tread block design makes me question its cornering capabilities. It's got an excellent review rating though.

Of the three, I'd investigate that Firestone tire further. If it washed out I'd go with the Yokohama over the Bridgestone.

Wes Whitmore

I tried the Dualer a few years back. You are right on the money about the hard compound.
The stiff sidewall comment was because it seems to me that air can only go so far. If the tire has stiff belts in the sidewall, less air would be needed to keep the rire from shifting left to right on a curve. More air will prevent that, but also make less contact patch on the road if you over inflate. Back in the AutoX days, people always talked about good sidewall strength. This is all theory. I know my motorcycle tire has a very stiff sidewall.

Well, I doubt anyone has this combo, but I wonder what the 1" lowering springs from PP with Bilstiens and front and rear sways will do, and how stupid it would look. The Yokohamas would probably be my tire of choice from the above selection. With tech1s and these tires, and the lowering, it might rub and look like crap. Who knows. I am sure it would perform better than stock. Pretty much any of my stock components (shocks, springs, or tires) could be changed out for anything aftermarket and it would be an improvement.

If it would rub, then Maybe there is an aftermarket spring that is just stiffer, but remains the same height as what I have now.

Thanks!
Wes

linhsy

Thanks foxtrapper for clearing that up...

cvlighthouse

go with the sway away... I love the on-road handling.... and adjustable to any height...

Wes Whitmore

Adjustable to any height in the front...

I took a hard look at my 4runner today. Its much higher in the back. I bet it is as least 1 ro 2 inches higher in the rear. I wonder if it is sag, or if it was always that way.

User 051420

Personally, I would NOT lower any 4runner. If you want it for looks I still say to try those 1" Lift spring from PP, then slap some Bils on it.

I couldn't justify the extra money for SAW's. We'll see once I get my bumper.

If you do the front and rear sway bars WITH a 1" lift, I bet your handling will still be MUCH better than stock. My runner with the OME lift handles MUCH better than stock, and I'm still rocking the stock sway bars. I feel much safer, and it reacts better in turns. Seems to me that you can only do better when you add new springs.