Epic Ed

I'm thinking about buying the ball joint spacers. Just wondering if anyone out there who has done this mod has had any problems with it after install? Any regrets? Anyone who did it, but wishes they hadn't?

Thanks -- Ed

Marc P

I just installed mine about 2 weeks ago. Ihave not had it offroad since the install, but so far I am very happy with the look and feel of it.

mt_goat

[QUOTE=Marc P]I just installed mine about 2 weeks ago. Ihave not had it offroad since the install, but so far I am very happy with the look and feel of it.
QUOTE]

Same here, just a little testing off-road. So far I love them. Rides better on-road and off and I'm 1.5 inches higher too.

Epic Ed

My mechanic had some concerns about the leverage they will create at the top of the ball joint. He indicates the bolts that hold the ball joint in place are kind of thin to begin with. And creating the extra space up top may be too much leverage for those bolts to with stand in off-road conditions.

This guy is the owner of a 2nd generation 4Runner, his third since they were produced. I trust this guys input a lot. He's not saying don't do it, but recommended I investigate the above concerns. Did any of you have similar concerns? I haven't heard of any failures at the spacer, so I'm assuming there have been enough tried and true off-roaders who have put these through the wringer. Your thoughts?

Ed

Marc P

you remove the stock bolts. The only part that will get extra stress is the cv joints. But if you have manual hubs that is not really a concern.

mt_goat

Frank sends grade 8 bolts to replace the factory studs. If those turn out to not be adequate I don't see any reason why you couldn't go with the next size larger, may have to drill the holes slightly bigger. I'm not worried about it with grade 8 bolts replacing what were probably grade 5 equivalent studs (metric 8.8). With the extra length of the bolts you add elasticity to the union and they should stretch and get loose before a failure. It wouldn’t hurt to check them for looseness after wheeling hard, but I think you would have plenty of rattling to warn you if they get loose.

Ilovemountains

Hi, the only thing I dont like about my ball joint spacer install is the loss of downward travel, I dont like the way when I hit a large dip in the highway and the front end springs back up and hits the bump stops. I am looking into haveing mine cut down a little to help this out a little! Other than that I love them and I get a lot of looks and questions about them. The other area where my problem is really noticable is the large speed bumps here at work, when I roll up over them and the front end comes down the back side and bounces back up it wacks the bump stops kind of hard, I dont think this can damage anything it is just annoying to me, but I use my truck 80% highway and back roads and 20% off road so the back roads are really beating my bump stops to death. Any help would be great, I may have to take the spacers out all together, I dont know.

mt_goat

So are you talking about the bump stops that limit your down travel? Did you back off on your t-bar adjustment enough? You could also go with a shorter version of the spacers, like mill them down to 1 inch or 3/4 inch thickness. I know when I first unpacked the spacers, my first thought was, wow these are thick. That would be better then removing them completely.

Ilovemountains

Yeah thats what I want to do, have them cut in half and go from there, I wonder what Frank will charge to do that for me?!

mt_goat

Any machine shop could mill them down. It may be a little tricky to cut them in half because you need them to be flat and the same thickness everywhere. You know, parallel top and bottom sides. Maybe if someone had a precision band saw of some kind you could make 2 sets of short spacers out of them.

ROMAD

They charge an extra $30.00 to mill a half inch off the spacers (to make 1" spacers out of the 1.5" spacers) I asked them about this just last week.

elripster

Wow, I didn't know there was such a demand for the lower spacers. Maybe I could offer some has a "ride softening" kit for the less hardcore of us. Feel free to post up if you are interested, I might be able to do a package deal or something if I can do a bunch at once.

To address the downtravel, the spacers don't effect downtravel. They only icrease up travel. If you have set your suspension at 1.5" of lift, you should have exactly the same downtravel as stock but more up travel. If this is the case, I might inquire into the shock shimming or some other cause of the downtravel phenomenon. 'mountains, just curious, you wouldn't be running Rancho 9000's up front would you?

Now about the hardware. I am in no way trying to put down Ed's mechanic but he doesn't really understand the whole force thing as it applies to hardware, at least not from an engineering stand point. The spacers are in compression. The only tensile forces the screws see in normal operation are those from the hardware tension. When sideways forces are applied, either by pushing the a-arm up, or turning a corner, tensile forces are increased, These bolts can take about 50,000lb of force EACH. (the nuts are doubled up so are good to go) You could hang 200,000lb from the 4 of them. If you look at say the inside edge of the spacer as a pivot and figure you now have 4 bolts holding from rotating around that edge, you'd need say 500,000 lb to snap the bolts. Try to invision what would happen to your truck if you even pushed on your rims or tires with 10,000lb of sideways force, a level way to low to produce tensile forces anywhere near failure rate.. you'd rip tires off the rim, destroy the rim, send the truck cartwheeling down the road.. basically, if you every find yourself in a situation where the hardware might fail, God help you because the hardware will be the last of your worries.

Frank

Epic Ed

Good input, Frank. We were both trying to determine the pro/cons of this mod without actually having a chance to look at how/where it bolts up. I was describing it to him based on memory of photos I've seen, and I think he (mechanic) will have his concerns aleviated once I get these things in his hands.

Down travel was never a concern I had about this mod, so I'm surprised to see that as an issue. Sounds like it may not be related to the mod, but rather the bump stops or limiting due to a short shock.

Ed

elripster

If I had to just guess, I'd say the t-bars are cranked up or the shock needs shimming. It's hard to say with a pic to look at.

Frank

JoKEpLaYeR

How does one shim a shock? Just curious... Washers?

elripster

Right now washers. As soon as I get some time, I'm going to make a bunch and include them in the kit. I'm moving this weekend though so it won't be until next weekend. Otherwise, washers work great.

Frank

ROMAD

I am interested.

I think 1" spacers would do nicely for what I need and how I drive. I have been considering all that you informed me of in the email about adjusting the tbars 'down' from the stock location to compensate for the extra half inch of lift I was wondering about - it makes perfect sense really. I just wonder if it would soften things up too much? Other than that I am sold on your spacers - I am just working out the specifics of what I need.

elripster

I don't think it would be too soft. Of course that's subjective, but 1" spacers would soften up the front about 1/3 less than the 1.5" spacers. So far, no one has complained of the 1.5" spacers as being too soft.

I'm moving this weekend so I'm just a tad busy. However, say late next week, I'll take a head count as to who wants 1" spacers. If I get say 5, I'll do it for 10 bucks over. Once I have the mill set up it goes pretty quick. It's just more work when you have to set it up over and over, better to do a batch at once.

Frank

Ilovemountains

Frank, Hi yes I am running a new set of Rancho 9000x 9 ways up front, they are supposed to be good for up to a 4" lift "I thought"! I will take some pics of the front end and hopefully we can figure my issue out. When I bounce the front end now it comes up about an inch and hits the bump stops, hard! I dont think its a shock problem but I could be wrong!! Thanks again, Matt

elripster

I think I found your problem, it's the shocks.(Not the travel though) Rancho 9000's for the front of IFS Toys have two problems. One, they have almost no compression dampning, you can clapse them with your fingers. Two, they adjustment only effects rebound dampning. That means, say you put them in the mid setting, if you hit a bump the wheels can travel up almost as fast as if the shock weren't there. However, they will extend much more slowly. When you hit a pothole, instead of the wheel falling into the hole and tracking the ground, the truck falls into the hole. I had these shocks and hated them. We even tested them in a physics class a few years back and confirmed what you could plainly tell by just compression/extending the shocks with your hands: no compression dampning, the adjuster only effects rebound.

You'd be better off with any other shock than those. Now for the rear, they are great, they work just like you'd expect them (opposite the fronts). I have had my rear 9000's for years and am very happy with the ability to tailor them for varying loads.

Frank