DinoEck

Hi Gang:

I have a '98 4Runner 4x4 automatic with the 4 cylinder engine and 130k on the clock.

It's been squealing and rattling for the past few (Arctic) months here in Boston. I initially thought it was the fan clutch and took everything apart to inspect the fan clutch, only to realize that the clutch was ok and the rattle was coming from the crankshaft.

On my engine, I have the following belts driven off the crankshaft:


- A/C Compressor
- P/S pump (and maybe something else)
- Cooling fan, Waterpump and Alternator

The pulley for this last, innermost belt seems to have some play designed into it, perhaps 1/8 - 1/4" fore and aft. Vibration resistance? Startup torque? I have no idea, but the cause of the loud clattering is the pulley rattling around in this gap.

Any ideas what is going on? The belt tension looks OK. It happens most at idle. At higher speed it seems to settle in more.

Many thanks for your advice. As you know, in that section of the engine parts are expensive and access is tough...

Dino

dimitri

Same thing happened on my '95. Rattle city especially in cold weather and at idle. Then the harmonic balancer/pulley came off!!!
Remove all the belts and check the bolt. You might find the belts are what is holding it on the crankshaft !

KONASTAR

Replace the harmonic balancer.
the pulley seperated itself from the balancer causing pulley movement & alternator belt misalignment (chattering noise too).

Dorman part# 594-141

Mike

DinoEck

Thanks, guys - I took it all apart this morning and while the crankshaft bolt was plenty snug, I do think the harmonic balancer is shot - there is a ton of play in it that feels like a rubber center has worn out. I can move it in and out along the crankshaft with my hands.

I can literally see this happening at cold start and the belt moving and the chattering going on.

So - one question, is there anything more to replacing the harmonic balancer than easing off on the belts and removing the crankshaft bolt and sliding all 3 pulleys off the crankshaft? I don't have a shop manual (beyond the Haynes guide) for this vehicle.

Thanks for your help. I assume I can drive it for another 2 weeks while I get parts and a good block of time...

KONASTAR

Other than changing any worn belts, you might consider replacing the crank seal.
I had this one customer that ran his like this for way over a month before he brought it to me for repairs.

Mike

KONASTAR

Oh' the two other pulleys unbolts from the harmonic balancer.
removing the crank bolt will be alot easier with that out of the way.

Mike

DinoEck

good advice - so you're saying:

1) Take off the belts
2) remove the 4 bolts that make up the pulley assembly & remove 2 outer pulleys
3) Unbolt crankshaft bolt
4) slide off harmonic balancer
[did I get this right?]

Two follow-up questions-

a) I'm hoping to do this w/o removing the radiator. I got in there this morning simply by removing the lower plastic fan shroud after taking off the skid plate. It seemed like there was enough room to work (I was able to tighter all 5 bolts this way)

b) How do you secure the crankshaft from spinning while removing the nut on the end? There must be a good trick...

I ordered the new HB today from Rock Auto - $105

Dino

mt_goat

One option:



or if you can weld:

dimitri

You want to inspect the crankshaft "key" .
Take a look here for "before" and "during" pictures. I'm still working on mine.
www.photobucket.com/qex

KONASTAR

Hey Dino...
Thats pretty much the right order to remove the balancer.
you need a chain wrench to hold the balancer from turning.
use a long breaker bar with that 19mm socket. a pipe might be handy to aid as leverage.

Hope this helps.

Mike

stir_fry_boy

I thought that the crankshaft pulley was pressed on. Am I wrong?

dimitri

You have to slowly guide it in, but you don't need to use a press or anything

DinoEck

Hey guys, completed the job today - thanks for all the advice.

I used the tried and true "lash the breaker bar to the frame and blip the starter" technique to break the crankshaft bolt.... I was expecting trouble in removing the harmonic balancer, but it slid right off.

BTW, the outer part of the balancer had completely separated from the inner piece. Certainly needed to be done!

3 hours total time, going slowly and fixing a few other things along the way. I figure I saved $5-800 by not taking it in to a shop.

dimitri

Great news
Was the "key" still in good condition or did you end up replacing that as well?
Did you take pictures?
Just for grins and giggles you should call a couple of places, tell them the harmonic balancer is loose and hear what they say. Then you'll be glad you did it yourself

DinoEck

Forgot to take pix, though I will go take one of the fully separated harmonic balancer and post it.

The key showed no signs of problems, the new HB slid on cleanly and I rotated it until it found the keyway and it seated right in.

As for calling around Dimitri, I did that on Friday when I got cold feet and I was amazed. I called a Toyota dealer, who said the job was a minimum of 2 hours @$95 per, plus I asked about the cost of the HB (whach I paid $104 from Rock Auto) and they quoted $266. Oh, and earlier I had called the local garage when I thought it might be tied to the fluid filled fan clutch - and the guy had never heard of such a thing and made me feel like an idiot.

On top of that, 2 of the 3 belt tensioner bolts snapped when I tried to remove them. 12 years of New England weather isn't kind to fasteners... anyway, I spent an hour with a drill press,a vice and a torch to clean them up. The dealer said then new assembly was $188 each.

I figure it was a $1,000 job by the time the dealer would've finished up.

All in all very happy. The truck runs great. Couldn't have done it without you guys. Thanks again.

mt_goat

How did you retorque the crank bolt?

DinoEck

good question... I did the best I could with a breaker bar and the engine drag and the belt drag, as well as my hand jammed into the belt to hold things. Probably not to torque spec but I wasn't losing sleep over it. The engine will try and torque it further, no? Like a bicycle pedal?

mt_goat

Probably not, on the V6s they tend to loosen up and cause a lot of problems including ruining the crankshaft balancer keyway. Get it to someone with the proper tools to torque it to spec or fab up your own tool.

More on the problems with the V6s:

http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Articles/012007_04.html

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/c...ighway-128206/

That's why I don't understand using the breaker bar/starter method of removing the crank bolt, it doesn't help when you go to retorque it. Might as well make a tool to do the job right.

dimitri

I second the torquing it to spec using some sort of a hold-down tool and most certainly not a chain wrench.
Just do it. You'll be happier 40-60K miles later