FYI: 5VZ-FE V6 works fine with the auto A340H
10-27-2007, 01:51 PM
#21
Registered User
looking into it but i dont believe this will substitute for VSS #2 only VSS #1
VSS #2 is located as pictured above and is used purely by the ecu
VSS #1 is either located on the back of the speedometer in your dash or on the tail housing of the transmission in the case of those vehicles using electronic speedometers. VSS #1 is used by the cruise control and by the ecu.
VSS #1 may aslo be provided by the abs system on some vehicles.
VSS #2 is located as pictured above and is used purely by the ecu
VSS #1 is either located on the back of the speedometer in your dash or on the tail housing of the transmission in the case of those vehicles using electronic speedometers. VSS #1 is used by the cruise control and by the ecu.
VSS #1 may aslo be provided by the abs system on some vehicles.
10-27-2007, 01:59 PM
#22
Registered User
Goat:
I was thinking of trying to get/make some sort of siginal generator to do what I need. I need to get the 4runner from my Wife and check the siginal with a labscope to be sure of what i'm dealing with. I really only know what the manual says and what i can physically see.
BAMF:
Turning off the CEL is ok, I'd like to know when I have another problem if it occurs (even more because I'm not the primary driver of this vehicle). 2nd, that speed sensor might work with people who already don't have a electronic speed sensor. I know the factory one will not work. The VSS creates a digital wave form that the ECU doesn't like to see for the tranny speed sensor. A AC wave form is needed not a square (digital).
One thing I'm going to try (and talked about with fallman) is using the driveshaft bolts as the pickup for the sensor. Mounting the factory A340f sensor (magnetic pickup) next to a revolving ferrious metal (driveshaft bolts) should generate an AC waveform. Also there are 4 bolts (4 pulse per revolution). The output shaft speed is the same as the driveshaft in all cases except in low range, I have no clue what it would do to shifting.
Fallman:
The ABS sensor might work or be close enough. The only problem is (in my case with 4.56 gears) it would see 11 pulses per revolution.
BTW if you have no speed sensor siginal (front or rear) it will not shift out of 1st gear.
I was thinking of trying to get/make some sort of siginal generator to do what I need. I need to get the 4runner from my Wife and check the siginal with a labscope to be sure of what i'm dealing with. I really only know what the manual says and what i can physically see.
BAMF:
Turning off the CEL is ok, I'd like to know when I have another problem if it occurs (even more because I'm not the primary driver of this vehicle). 2nd, that speed sensor might work with people who already don't have a electronic speed sensor. I know the factory one will not work. The VSS creates a digital wave form that the ECU doesn't like to see for the tranny speed sensor. A AC wave form is needed not a square (digital).
One thing I'm going to try (and talked about with fallman) is using the driveshaft bolts as the pickup for the sensor. Mounting the factory A340f sensor (magnetic pickup) next to a revolving ferrious metal (driveshaft bolts) should generate an AC waveform. Also there are 4 bolts (4 pulse per revolution). The output shaft speed is the same as the driveshaft in all cases except in low range, I have no clue what it would do to shifting.
Fallman:
The ABS sensor might work or be close enough. The only problem is (in my case with 4.56 gears) it would see 11 pulses per revolution.
BTW if you have no speed sensor siginal (front or rear) it will not shift out of 1st gear.
10-27-2007, 02:18 PM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RPM is the same if you are close to the center or 4' around. I can see what your saying though. The bolt pattern is not "square", that might mess it up also. I've seen the pickup for the A340F and it is actually about the same diameter as the driveshaft, like a 1/2" smaller.
10-27-2007, 02:57 PM
#24
Contributing Member
If it can I don't see why you couldn't rig the sensor to pickup the DS bolts.
10-27-2007, 03:00 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Richmond , Va / Henrico Co.
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-27-2007, 04:06 PM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Richmond , Va / Henrico Co.
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-27-2007, 05:51 PM
#28
Registered User
i dont think the No. 2 VSS is nessisarily an ac signal just an anilog signal and not digital.
SOOO what wee need is a digital to analog converter or a DAC.
Where are the Electrical engineers on here??????
SOOO what wee need is a digital to analog converter or a DAC.
Where are the Electrical engineers on here??????
10-27-2007, 06:22 PM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tinley Park, IL
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BAMF:
Turning off the CEL is ok, I'd like to know when I have another problem if it occurs (even more because I'm not the primary driver of this vehicle). 2nd, that speed sensor might work with people who already don't have a electronic speed sensor. I know the factory one will not work. The VSS creates a digital wave form that the ECU doesn't like to see for the tranny speed sensor. A AC wave form is needed not a square (digital).
One thing I'm going to try (and talked about with fallman) is using the driveshaft bolts as the pickup for the sensor. Mounting the factory A340f sensor (magnetic pickup) next to a revolving ferrious metal (driveshaft bolts) should generate an AC waveform. Also there are 4 bolts (4 pulse per revolution). The output shaft speed is the same as the driveshaft in all cases except in low range, I have no clue what it would do to shifting.
I was just joking around about the cel. Im sorry if i came off like a dickhead. I should have mentioned that. Sorry. Just fyi the AC wave is an analog signal (aka sine wave) and the signal from the 340f is a digital wave (aka square wave). I know you know all of this i just thought i would let you know about the terminology because i got confuse for a sec when reading your post.
I give you guys ALOT of credit for doing all of this research. My buddy cant wait for me to get my harness back and throw everything in. I personally dont care about the cel. I have a first gen 4runner and basically those trucks are still primative enough that if something is wrong you really dont need a cel to tell you. If i had a newer truck then i would like to have a cel light. My buddy has a 88 4runner with the 3.0 and 5 speed and his cel is always on and he averages 20/22mpg on the highway.
So all in all as long as it works Im happy cel or no cel
10-27-2007, 06:38 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tinley Park, IL
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
not to get off topic but does anyone know why we dont have a 3.4 swap section yet???
to get back on topic I am getting alittle confused with AC signal and analog signals terms on here. Just to make sure we are all on the same page is it safe to asume that when you guys talk about AC signals, which means alternating current, in the form of a sine wave that is an analog signal or am i missing something???
to get back on topic I am getting alittle confused with AC signal and analog signals terms on here. Just to make sure we are all on the same page is it safe to asume that when you guys talk about AC signals, which means alternating current, in the form of a sine wave that is an analog signal or am i missing something???
10-27-2007, 07:26 PM
#31
Registered User
Okay so i have been looking at the wiring diagrams again tonight and the A340H speed sensors are Reed style and actuated by a magnent. Both the one in the Combination Meter and the one on the transmission are this type. According to the glossary this is actually and Analog Sensor.
Here are some clips of the wiring diagrams
This is the Combination Meter No. 1 Speed sensor (the one in the dash, behind the speedometer)
This is the No. 2 VSS on the transmission its the one pictured in my post earlier.
Here is what the glossary had to say about these sensors.
What i found with the 3.4 A340F Tacoma/4Runner Speed sensors is that the Rear No. 1, Combination Meter, speed sensor is a digital signal for sure and is operated by a transistor somehow. The front No. 2 VSS seems to be a Solenoid of some sorts it appears to opperate at least on the same principle as the crank and camshaft sensors.
Heres some pictures of those sensors
This is the No. 1 VSS Combination Meter
As you can see according to this entry in the glossary it seems to be a transistor of some sort.
This is the No. 2 VSS, this is the one causing all the issues.
And as you can see according to this clip it is very similar in operation or the same to the cam and crank shaft sensors
And according to the glossary this was the closest match it had to what is pictured for these sensors it calls it at solenoid
What i found really interesting is that the only entry in the glossary about the speed sensor went back and refferd to it as a Reed type sensor with the reed type picture. But the reed type sensor and picture is not pictured in any of the actual diagrams
So my question is has anyone tried to steal the signal from the No. 1 speed sensor to fill in for the No. 2 because according to this its possible that if its working for the No. 1 speed sensor it may work for the No 2 as well. Ill be trying this in the next couple days and let ya know.
BTW no matter what happens with this you do not want to use the A340H with a supercharger its valve body was not designed for this kind of power and it will slip.
Here are some clips of the wiring diagrams
This is the Combination Meter No. 1 Speed sensor (the one in the dash, behind the speedometer)
This is the No. 2 VSS on the transmission its the one pictured in my post earlier.
Here is what the glossary had to say about these sensors.
What i found with the 3.4 A340F Tacoma/4Runner Speed sensors is that the Rear No. 1, Combination Meter, speed sensor is a digital signal for sure and is operated by a transistor somehow. The front No. 2 VSS seems to be a Solenoid of some sorts it appears to opperate at least on the same principle as the crank and camshaft sensors.
Heres some pictures of those sensors
This is the No. 1 VSS Combination Meter
As you can see according to this entry in the glossary it seems to be a transistor of some sort.
This is the No. 2 VSS, this is the one causing all the issues.
And as you can see according to this clip it is very similar in operation or the same to the cam and crank shaft sensors
And according to the glossary this was the closest match it had to what is pictured for these sensors it calls it at solenoid
What i found really interesting is that the only entry in the glossary about the speed sensor went back and refferd to it as a Reed type sensor with the reed type picture. But the reed type sensor and picture is not pictured in any of the actual diagrams
So my question is has anyone tried to steal the signal from the No. 1 speed sensor to fill in for the No. 2 because according to this its possible that if its working for the No. 1 speed sensor it may work for the No 2 as well. Ill be trying this in the next couple days and let ya know.
BTW no matter what happens with this you do not want to use the A340H with a supercharger its valve body was not designed for this kind of power and it will slip.
10-27-2007, 07:27 PM
#32
Registered User
BTW dan get on msn i want to send you some files and see what you think about my deductions. and what we could come up with.
and no you are correct i got a little confused when i first talked to thefatkid cause i didnt think there was a/c current on our cars except for the 3phase coming out of the alternator. and i couldnt figure out why a sensor would generate it. when i started looking at the wiring diagrams again i realized it was just a differnce between Analog and Digital signals and really the only real problem is that the A340H No. 2 speed sensor only reads once every rotation where the A340F reads 4 times a revolotion
and no you are correct i got a little confused when i first talked to thefatkid cause i didnt think there was a/c current on our cars except for the 3phase coming out of the alternator. and i couldnt figure out why a sensor would generate it. when i started looking at the wiring diagrams again i realized it was just a differnce between Analog and Digital signals and really the only real problem is that the A340H No. 2 speed sensor only reads once every rotation where the A340F reads 4 times a revolotion
Last edited by thefallman; 10-27-2007 at 07:33 PM.
10-27-2007, 07:35 PM
#33
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bee Caves, Texas
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How do the A340f sensors get their signal? They have digital output, but the input is still analog. And where are they mounted? Anyone have some pictures of the A340f ?
10-27-2007, 07:37 PM
#34
Registered User
input to A340F sensors is voltage.
and they are located in the same locations except that the No. 1 VSS can be located on the tail housing as a Digital speedometer
and they are located in the same locations except that the No. 1 VSS can be located on the tail housing as a Digital speedometer
10-27-2007, 07:40 PM
#35
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bee Caves, Texas
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-27-2007, 07:41 PM
#36
Registered User
im hoping that since the the No 1 speed sensor output on my vehicle is obviously analog and is obviously filling in and working right now for what should be a digital signal, that i can steal it and send it to the no 2 vss so that hopefully the ecu will be fooled
10-27-2007, 07:42 PM
#37
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bee Caves, Texas
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-27-2007, 07:48 PM
#38
Registered User
I wont have pictures of an A340F till monday but ill have pictures of the sensors tomorrow hopefully.
thefatkid. if you want to come over tomorrow i will change the wiring to steal the No. 1 vss tomorrow and we shall see if it works.
I think the main problem is the 4 pulse A340F. No 2 VSS verses 1 pulse A340H No. 2 VSS.
thefatkid. if you want to come over tomorrow i will change the wiring to steal the No. 1 vss tomorrow and we shall see if it works.
I think the main problem is the 4 pulse A340F. No 2 VSS verses 1 pulse A340H No. 2 VSS.
10-27-2007, 07:51 PM
#39
Registered User
Im talking to Dan/Bamf about it but basically the sensors on teh A340F work as Switchs on off on off on off they are only on 4 times per revolution.
10-27-2007, 09:56 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm talking about an AC waveform (it is a form of analog but a O2 is also analog). To group a AC wave into just a analog wave is too vauge. An AC wave form will swing positive and negative, usally a equal amount. I'm not preachin or anything, just was i was taught in electrical school.
BAMF, I was not in anyway offended by what you said just to be clear.
That symbol that Fallman is showing on the wiring diagram is for a "inductive pickup". Basically a inductive pickup functions by passing a piece of metal past the sensor inducing a current in the sensor (ac waveform).
I'll read through this stuff again tomorrow, I have no brain power left to think
BAMF, I was not in anyway offended by what you said just to be clear.
That symbol that Fallman is showing on the wiring diagram is for a "inductive pickup". Basically a inductive pickup functions by passing a piece of metal past the sensor inducing a current in the sensor (ac waveform).
I'll read through this stuff again tomorrow, I have no brain power left to think
