FYI: 5VZ-FE V6 works fine with the auto A340H
10-27-2007, 09:56 PM
#41
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BAMF/Dan and i went over the diagrams tonight and what i thought was possibly called a solenoid is actually an inductor, which makes more sense.
I will let you all know how the signal steal goes tomorrow.
Give me a call tomorrow if you want to swing by brian.
btw what your calling a a/c wave form is actually called a syne wave i believe.
I will let you all know how the signal steal goes tomorrow.
Give me a call tomorrow if you want to swing by brian.
btw what your calling a a/c wave form is actually called a syne wave i believe.
Last edited by thefallman; 10-27-2007 at 10:00 PM.
10-28-2007, 06:52 AM
#43
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I'm talking about an AC waveform (it is a form of analog but a O2 is also analog). To group a AC wave into just a analog wave is too vauge. An AC wave form will swing positive and negative, usally a equal amount. I'm not preachin or anything, just was i was taught in electrical school.
BAMF, I was not in anyway offended by what you said just to be clear.
That symbol that Fallman is showing on the wiring diagram is for a "inductive pickup". Basically a inductive pickup functions by passing a piece of metal past the sensor inducing a current in the sensor (ac waveform).
I'll read through this stuff again tomorrow, I have no brain power left to think
BAMF, I was not in anyway offended by what you said just to be clear.
That symbol that Fallman is showing on the wiring diagram is for a "inductive pickup". Basically a inductive pickup functions by passing a piece of metal past the sensor inducing a current in the sensor (ac waveform).
I'll read through this stuff again tomorrow, I have no brain power left to think
The AC signal you are refering to is a sine wave. The sine wave is considered to be an analog signal. A square wave can also look like a sine just in square form (considered to be digital).
As far as the inductor, and from looking at the wiring DIAGRAM (not as detailed as a schematic) it appears to be in an RL circuit in which gives you a square wave (digital).
10-28-2007, 07:00 AM
#44
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Sorry to get off topic for a split second, if you guys make this work, could you have your A340H valvebody upgraded by say Import Performance Transmissions to be able to work with a supercharger? Or is it still just too much power?
10-28-2007, 07:20 AM
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10-28-2007, 07:29 AM
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Here are some Toyota pages that describe the speed sensors. Says one can be a photocoupling device.
It mentions a Corolla tranny, but the pdf specifically states that this pertains to the ect 340's...
It mentions a Corolla tranny, but the pdf specifically states that this pertains to the ect 340's...
Last edited by LoneStarMac; 10-28-2007 at 08:43 AM.
10-28-2007, 09:38 AM
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The AC signal you are refering to is a sine wave. The sine wave is considered to be an analog signal. A square wave can also look like a sine just in square form (considered to be digital).
As far as the inductor, and from looking at the wiring DIAGRAM (not as detailed as a schematic) it appears to be in an RL circuit in which gives you a square wave (digital).
As far as the inductor, and from looking at the wiring DIAGRAM (not as detailed as a schematic) it appears to be in an RL circuit in which gives you a square wave (digital).
The VSS is a square waveform, I don't rember if it is a photo-reluctor though. I thought it had it's own converter to turn a AC/sine/Analog siginal to a positive switched digital siginal. Edit: this is why if you have no cable you rear speed sensor has a 12V supply wire.
I was playing around at work yesterday, the forman's office was locked so no Labscope but with a DVOM i could get a voltage siginal from a a340f speed sensor by passing a bolt next to it's magnet. There is a little promise there.
Last edited by thefatkid; 10-28-2007 at 09:41 AM.
10-28-2007, 09:45 AM
#49
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Ya know, I was thinking these two trannies are just too similar.
Good engineers prefer to change only as much as necessary.
I bet both of the speed sensors get their signal in the same way, they just transmit it to the ECU differently. I wish I had an A340f to check out...
Good engineers prefer to change only as much as necessary.
I bet both of the speed sensors get their signal in the same way, they just transmit it to the ECU differently. I wish I had an A340f to check out...
Last edited by LoneStarMac; 10-28-2007 at 10:10 AM.
10-28-2007, 10:00 AM
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10-28-2007, 10:17 AM
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A340h uses a 1 pulse per revoultion mechanical sensor (magnet moves a bimetal strip) that is a digital on off siginal. Magnet mounted to the mainshaft passes the sensor pulling on the bimetal strip creating an open and closed circut.
Yuck!
10-28-2007, 10:51 AM
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So- let me get this straight... a 340H delivers a one pulse per rev sensor, 'sine wave', whereas a 340F dleivers a 4 pulse per rev (using a reed switch). This is starting to sound doable, as the real driving factor is knowing exactly what the ECM wants. There are more than a handful of signal converters & conditioners out there that might work.
What about modifying the 4 pulse to only kick one per rev? What are the voltage levels of each signal?
What about modifying the 4 pulse to only kick one per rev? What are the voltage levels of each signal?
Last edited by 89934runr; 10-28-2007 at 11:26 AM.
10-28-2007, 12:26 PM
#53
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So- let me get this straight... a 340H delivers a one pulse per rev sensor, 'sine wave', whereas a 340F dleivers a 4 pulse per rev (using a reed switch). This is starting to sound doable, as the real driving factor is knowing exactly what the ECM wants. There are more than a handful of signal converters & conditioners out there that might work.
What about modifying the 4 pulse to only kick one per rev? What are the voltage levels of each signal?
What about modifying the 4 pulse to only kick one per rev? What are the voltage levels of each signal?
thefatkid, why i changed my mind on the a340h being an anolog signal verse a digital is because in the old wiring diagrams it actually refers to the reed switch as being anolog as i showed in my picture clips. and it refers to the inductive pickup No. 1 and 2 speed sensors off of the later model as digital.
10-28-2007, 01:20 PM
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Neither is a sine-wave... VSS's deliver a counted pulse, not phase-relationships.
Try this link for more sensor info- I think the difference at this point is Voltage and pulse counts per rev.
http://www.grubinski.com/grubinski/a...manuals/36.pdf
Either way- we can whip this sucker!
Try this link for more sensor info- I think the difference at this point is Voltage and pulse counts per rev.
http://www.grubinski.com/grubinski/a...manuals/36.pdf
Either way- we can whip this sucker!
10-28-2007, 01:42 PM
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Neither is a sine-wave... VSS's deliver a counted pulse, not phase-relationships.
Try this link for more sensor info- I think the difference at this point is Voltage and pulse counts per rev.
http://www.grubinski.com/grubinski/a...manuals/36.pdf
Either way- we can whip this sucker!
Try this link for more sensor info- I think the difference at this point is Voltage and pulse counts per rev.
http://www.grubinski.com/grubinski/a...manuals/36.pdf
Either way- we can whip this sucker!
nice find
10-28-2007, 09:01 PM
#56
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As promised here are the pictures of the speed sensors
This is a picture of all 3 sorry the lighting sucked and the flash was off
This is a picture of the A340F inductive pickup No. 2 speed sensor
This is a picture of the T100 A340F Reed style No. 2 Speed sensor
This is a picture of the A340H Reed Style No. 2 Speed Sensor.
This is a picture of all 3 sorry the lighting sucked and the flash was off
This is a picture of the A340F inductive pickup No. 2 speed sensor
This is a picture of the T100 A340F Reed style No. 2 Speed sensor
This is a picture of the A340H Reed Style No. 2 Speed Sensor.
10-30-2007, 08:29 PM
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Is the T100/A340F sensor located in the same place as the sensor in the A340H? Or, is it where the later model A340F sensor is? Or heck, I dunno are they all in the same place. I have no A340F to look at !!
Could someone hook up a scope to these to these sensors when they're live?
I talked to ORS again. They are saying the same thing I have read. (and many of ya'll probably already know)
The ECU has a built in fail-safe to monitor the speed (hence the need for multiple speed sensors). The ECU can supposedly run everything fine with one bad (or in this case missing) sensor. It will just throw a code and the CEL will remain on...(ORS wasn't quite this verbal...)
If the only difference in output from the 2nd speed sensor is voltage and pulse counts, it should be trivial to fab an adapter.
Last edited by LoneStarMac; 10-30-2007 at 08:31 PM.
10-30-2007, 09:03 PM
#59
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To many other things going right now sorry. I actually never got around to doing it. I was to busy putting a trans in the wifes new 4runner. But i talked to thefatkid and he said he had tried to steal the signal already and it didnt work and threw a code for incorrect voltage. He says the voltage from the A340F No. 2 VSS is around 1.5 volts and when scoped does actually go positive/negative. where as the A340H No. 1 VSS (Combination Meter) puts out a pulsed postive voltage of around 12 volts. What im thinking is we need some kind of device that mimics the No. 2 VSS by stealing the No. 1 VSS signal and converting it. But first we kinda need to know more about the signal we are talking about. Ill see what i can do when i get home. I have a really good friend that is in charge of a Automotive Tech Program at our local University back home. He should beable to help us figure it out.
Sorry i wasnt able to get pics of the T100/A340F Sensor installed. It is located on the OPPOSITE side of the trans from the A340H Sensor location. And the A340F Tacoma/4Runner Speed sensor is Located in the same place as the A340H.
Im sure you can thefatkid has done it and the toyota repair manual tells you how to.
Both thefatkid and i have run A340H's with exactly these results and also the same with the A340F/T100 has the same results as well when not using the T100 ECU
Yes, except it would be much much easier if we had someone with a electrical engineering degree emphisis in electronics.
The ECU has a built in fail-safe to monitor the speed (hence the need for multiple speed sensors). The ECU can supposedly run everything fine with one bad (or in this case missing) sensor. It will just throw a code and the CEL will remain on...(ORS wasn't quite this verbal...)
Yes, except it would be much much easier if we had someone with a electrical engineering degree emphisis in electronics.
10-31-2007, 08:48 AM
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Well, this may be a dumb question, but has anybody tried to swap sensors?
Or maybe use the early 5vzfe T100 ECU ?
Or maybe use the early 5vzfe T100 ECU ?
Last edited by LoneStarMac; 10-31-2007 at 08:53 AM.
