Sorry, missed that part. But don't rule out the rear driveshaft/u-joints/slip yoke in any even. And do check for bent axles. I have yet to have a perfectly straight rear axle on my '85, one of the reasons for going to a full floating rear axle.

 

Guys,
Thanks for all of the responses. I appreciate it. Step one is going to be this Saturday. Per Michelin's request, I am going to take it into one of their authorized retailers for an complete inspection. Michelin has already told me that they would not honor the Hunter machine's road force numbers (which according to Hoover Toyota indicated a couple of bad tires), but I'm sure that they will find the vibration just as unsatisfactory as I do. I actually took my truck to this place when I had the Revos on there and had the same vibration problem and he rode with me for several miles on the interstate and made the comment that "this is unacceptable." Well, at the time, all he could tell me that he could do was do another balance (they have the Hunter machine as well) and suggested that the "LT" rating on the Revos could have somethng to do with the vibration/harsh ride. Not so much. These Cross Terrains are 265/75/16s just like the Revos and they are "P" rated and vibrate the same way at the same speeds. I don't know what the resolution will be to their "inspection" but it is what Michelin requested. If I'm going to have to live with the vibration, I wish that I could just get my Revos back, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. Even if this shop determines that the tires are bad, I doubt I will be able to get my money back, especially since I didn't buy them from this shop. God, I just want some freakin resolution to this.....

BTW, I have never gotten a road force printout like you had attached. Hoover Toyota printed the numbers on the receipt, but not the actual printout from the machine. Someone at work suggested that my shocks and/or struts may be a factor in this. I don't see how. Someone else at work mentioned that I may have a hub (or two) that is out of round. Don't know. I'm at a loss for words at this point. I feel like a dog chasing my tail. I'd like to approach Toyota with this issue, but after reading Gadget's website and the fact that he had to go to arbitration with them, it doesn't sound like they would do anything about it at all, especially on a truck with 125k miles. Oh what I would give for a smooth ride...........

Matt

 

Guys,
Your trucks are several years older than mine. I've got an '01. I really don't see how the U joints could have gone out this early and if they did, why I don't experience more vibration at lower speeds. If they were bad, I would think that I would feel a pretty harsh vibration around 40 or 50 mph as well. I don't know, just sick of dealing with this.

Matt

 

One more thing. The owner of the tire shop next to where I work has a 98 Limited 4Runner. I don't know what size tire he has on his, but it is either 70/16s or 75/16s. I could probably convince him to swap wheels/tires alot quicker than I could my friend. Plus, they own the tire shop so making the swap would take no time and they are alot more likely to be balanced than my friends. I may try to cut out of work a few hours early on Friday and stop by there and let the wheel/tire swap be step one. Then have the tires inspected at the other shop on Saturday. Once again, just venting and rambling....

Matt

 

BTW,
Where can I find the phone number for Toyota's Technical Service Hotline?

Matt

 

Nope, not true. Its very possible for the Ujoints to go out on any year. I just replaced mine yesterday. The grease had stopped getting to the bearings, the cap was broken and the shaft part was starting to square. So As you can see mine were VERY bad, and I still didn't have ANY vibration at all till I hit 60+. Not to mention mine weren't that old to begin with.

 

Matt:

You've got 125k miles. How many times have YOU crawled under your truck to inspect anything? Sometimes you have to look over these guys shoulders literally to get them to check the stuff that you want them to. Do you know what to look for in order to diagnose a bad U-joint? "Age" doesnt' have much to do with it. Miles and Maintenance have EVERYTHING to do with it.

You don't have "bad" tires. All the REVO's were under 12# on the Roadforce Balance. You had the vibration then. You now have different tires and you STILL have the same vibration. You have a mechanical failure or defect. Plain and simple.

Now, we already took a look at the wheel bearings and the steering rack and bushings (jacked up the front and spun the wheels and also checked for any wobble or "looseness" in the suspension and also in the spindle/bearings). I also looked at the steering links, the ball joints, and about all of the front suspension. Since you've had multiple RF balances from different places, then we also can assume that the runout on the wheels has been checked and that the tires/wheels are properly balanced and are not out of round and also don't have any side to side runout. We either know or can assume that all of these are fine.

It could be:

1. Bent rear axle shaft - but that's not likely since you only have vibrations at a specific speed range and don't feel ANYTHING at lower speeds.

2. Warped front rotors - could be the culprit, but not very likely since again, you don't feel anything at lower speeds. don't totally discount this one though since this could still be the problem due to the harmonics of the vibration and it just doesn't get "strong enough" to feel until you get over 60 MPH.

3. Failing U-Joint - could VERY LIKELY be the cause of the problem. Have YOU taken a look at the U-Joints while either on the groun or on a lift? Does each have all 4 dust caps in place? When was the last time they were lubed? However, don't automatically assume that this is the only thing that could cause this...

4. Bent or out of balance Driveshaft - since you're 2WD and have NEVER taken your runner offroad, this is VERY UNLIKELY and can pretty much be discounted for now unless all of the other stuff checks out fine. One way to "check" this is to get the runner on a lift, start it up, put it in gear, and then get under it to watch the driveshaft turn and check for runout.

5. Alignment Problems - You've had an alignment with subsequent follow-up checks, however, when you came over and I cross rotated your tires for you, remember that cuffing that I hsowed you that was beginning to show up? I know that the cross-rotation didn't completely solve the problem, but didn't it calm it down a lot? If the vibration went away somewhat and has now come back, you are still wearing the tires unevenly and that's telling me that your alignment is out - specifically the toe.


Good luck.... Sorry that you're going through all this...

 

OK. But when you drop your axle, I'm going to be the first one to say I told you so. I was in the same denial as you for a short time... Never had any vibration at low speeds and it never did until it was over 55 mph. No squeaks, either. Then BAM! I'm just lucky the drive shaft didn't take out my gas tank, because it easily could have.

You can ignore this advise all you want, but if you don't have it ruled out by removing it and inspecting it, you could be flipping down the freeway very soon.

I just don't understand why you want to focus on the less damaging scenario, here. If at any chance the drive shaft on mine could be a culprit of anything I am experiencing I would not hesitate to fix it.

 

Andy and Ted,
Thanks for the input. I really appreciate it. I just got off the phone with Jeff Johnson, the service manager at Limbaugh Toyota, and told him that I was still fighting the vibration problem. I also read him ya'lls post (Ted's about the u joints and Andy's long post) and he thought that the u joints were a possibility, although unlikely because I am not experiencing any vibration when coasting down such as coming off the interstate on an exit ramp. He said it is possible though. He did say that in his many years of service, he did have one oddity that was causing cabin vibration in a Tundra. Jeff had never heard of it but the guy who owned the truck actually brought it up to him. He told Jeff that he thought the rear drums were either out of round or out of balance. He did not have any vibration when he applied the brake, just when the truck was up to speed. Jeff was skeptical and had never heard of it but it fixed the problem. Now, I hate to drop $200 on drums plus labor in an effort to solve this problem and it not do it. I am taking the truck in Saturday morning and I told Jeff when I talked to him that I planned on standing in the shop with the mechanics and watching every move they make and getting them to explain everything to me as they checked it out. They said they would check the drive shaft again and the u joints, and also take the rear tires off and check the drums as best as they could. I'm not buying new drums in the hopes that it solves the problem. I want definitive answers. Jeff agreed there's something up since I've had two sets of tires and still have the problem and also numerous road force balances that have not found a problem with any of the wheels. The saga continues.....

Matt

 

I got one (bent rear axle shaft that is) and I don't feel anything until I hit about 55-60 MPH, then it starts shaking pretty good. Axtually on mine, both shaft are a little bent and when the bends on each side get into phase, it it worst. When the two bends get out of phase it sort of smooths out. But it is really easy to see this, rear axle on jackstands, then the engine idle in 1st gear to spin the tires and look for radial runout in the tread face. I just hold a stick or pointer up close to the tire as it spins. Watch for the gap between the pointer and tire to change as the tire rotates. I think the factory spec is like 0.01", so if you can see any change in gap, that is likely over the spec.

 

Matt, one thing you may want to have inspected is the steering assembly. I found this thread interesting: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/steering-rack-movement-sound-can-you-help-me-out-46028/

 

Ok, so I go to A&R Tire today to swap tires/wheels with the owner. Not an identical swap since he has 70/16s on his and I have 75/16s on mine, but I figured it was better than nothing. I had talked to him yesterday and everything was a go for today. So, I cut out of work at 1:00 and head over there. Pull up, and no 4Runner. His freakin wife needed it to move some furniture. So, I'm stuck and don't know what to do. We talk for a few minutes about the possible causes and he looked at the total ˟˟˟˟˟ ass balance job that I got from Hoover Toyota a couple weeks ago and he couldn't believe what they had done. They did what he called "chasing weights" by having a large weight at say 6:00 and then a smaller one at 4:30. He said that this was obviously done by someone who did not know how to use the Hunter machine or how to properly balance a tire. Three of my four tires had two weights on the outside of the rim. Well, I sucked it up and paid A&R $50 to break them down AGAIN, and do ANOTHER road force balance. Well guess what. They substantially lowered all of the numbers that Hoover Toyota supposedly could not get any lower. I'm now at 10, 11, 13, and 16 lbs of force variation on my four tires. I got out on the highway and guess what, the vibration was almost completely gone. It's still there slightly, but I will DEFINITELY take what I've got now. A marked improvement over where it was. He spent about two hours balancing the four tires and I was standing next to him the whole time. If the tire didn't appear to be perfectly centered when he spun it, guess what....He took it off, re mounted it on the machine and spun it again. A couple of the tires he had to take off and "re-chuck" three or four times before he felt they were perfectly centered on the machine. Two hours later the truck rides much much smoother. I just hope it lasts. Thanks guys for all of the invaluable advice on here. I really appreciate it and I will keep you updated. BTW, I've got a mind to go by Hoover Toyota and let their sorry ass service manager, who was a total prick to me the day I picked my truck up from them, know how sorry of a job they did and that I will NEVER be back in there for any sort of service. Sounds like a good way to start a Saturday morning....Later.

Matt

 

Not at all unexpected, same kind of things happen with alignments. Many shops have nearly the same equipment, they set it up (correctly or not), take some measurements (and since the results show up on a computer screen they MUST be right), make some adjustments and call it good. The few good places will set it up to make sure it is correct and keep at it until they get the best result and one that makes sense. I've seen that on alignments, where you might have one front wheel that won't quite come into spec. So they will get it close and then set the other side to spec. You end up with wierd handling, pulling to one side, etc. Find a good alignment guy and he'll take into account the one out of spec wheel and align the other wheel to work together with the "bad" one.
So best bet if you go to one place and get a bad balance or alignment job, probably not worth returning there to have the "fix" it. Better off finding a better shop to take it to and have it done right.

 

Now take that printoff to Hoover and get a refund from them for their FUBARed RF Balance and telling you that it wasn't going to get any better...