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Land Usage & Off Road Responsibility Discussion pertaining to the education of proper land usage, closures, and responsible off road driving

Tread lightly. ??? What's wrong here?

Old 11-24-2011, 02:48 AM
  #21  
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Glad Tread Lightly came back with a good, well thought out reply. 90% of my web surfing is done by iphone so I can appreciate the need to wait a bit
I will be educating myself with the link Justin provided:
http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/

--> Justin: if you have any more info, I am sure you do, please post the links here so we can all access them. We could maybe make important links a sticky so the info is there for all to see and it doesn't get buried.

Mudhippy hasn't been on since 11.20...hopefully he chimes in with his 'supporting documention' and not opinions...
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:47 AM
  #22  
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OCdropzone...

I will try and get some additional links up soon. Its been a busy month (I officially came on full-time with TL! last month, instead of just being the forum-guru) so I have had a full plate.

Rest assured I will keep you all posted as to our goings-on, and relevant information.

Cheers.
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:27 PM
  #23  
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I don't know what you guys are looking for in terms of proof. But the story is more twisted and devious than I've even divulged. There was most likely a conspiracy of sorts involved with the "closing" of the trail/road in question(no gate last I checked so...is it really "closed"?). It involved a thread about "illegal mudding", my comments in which inspired a certain member(former moderator as a result) here to get on the horn to Tread Lightly(or whomever they're affiliated with these days). Informing them of an area where they needed to step in and start bulldozing every little side road/trail they could find in an effort to stop the "illegal" activities going on there. So that they did, and threw up a few signs while they were at it. Of course any and all information regarding the incident is being withheld by those who are aware of it, besides me(in an attempt to make me look bad I suppose). I do know EXACTLY who did it, and he knows EXACTLY who he is. I respectfully decline to share that knowledge at this time, as a friendly gesture.

What's more?

As a sick little joke they(TL or their affiliates) put in an "ATV trail" nearby for a place to wheel instead. It's up off of Crooked Finger Rd. before you hit the "tree farm"(near Scotts Mills OR). Yeah, you jerkwads know the one I'm talking about. It's officially THE MOST pitiful excuse for a "trail" on the face of this Earth...I can guaranty it. They made some dirt piles near where some old trails were that they happened to be destroying at the time. The dirt came from the countless bulldozer trenches made while "closing" said trails. Marring the landscape in a way magnitudes more harmful environmentally I might add. Anyway, don't blink or you'll miss it. The whole trail MIGHT be 1/16 of a mile long. Just goes up over a couple dirt piles and you're done. WOO HOO!!! Sits on a piece of land that is less than 1/2 an acre for reference(I believe it was used as a small gravel pit originally). Oh...but I forgot to mention...it's FREE. AS IF anybody has, or will, ever use it regardless of the fact that it is.

BTW...

Here's the trail near where the sign was posted.
Point A = 44 53' 01.32" N x 122 24' 34.89" W
Point B = 44 51' 55.33" N x 122 24' 0.74" W


The original sign was torn down long ago(possibly replaced since then?). I think I might have a pic of it somewhere(need to look for it still). They can't hardly do any more than was done though, or they would have(TRUST ME!). And the sign was in the wrong place to begin with. You'd have trouble even finding the actual trail from where it was posted at the head of the road that connects to it, if you didn't already know it was there to begin with(looks like just another powerline access road if you don't know what you're looking for). But these idiots think they can put threatening signs up where ever they damn well please so...

Speaking of which. Here's a clue TL. We/I don't like all your advertisements telling/showing us/me "how trails get closed". That's nice. EXCEPT I DON'T DO THOSE THINGS!!! So why are you warning/threatening me all the time about it??? Maybe you should spend less money griping about the problem(s) and do something about it yourself(that is what you do right?). Stop treating us like little kids who need to be scolded or talked down to. Like we're the ones who are being stupid, irresponsible, criminally/environmentally negligent, or otherwise disrespectful human beings.

DON'T TELL ME ABOUT IRRESPONSIBLE LAND USE!!! TELL THE GUY THAT USES IT IRRESPONSIBLY!!! YOU THINK HE'S READING YOUR PSUEDO-EVIRONMENTALIST PROPAGANDA ADS, OR REALLY SEES THE MESSAGE BEHIND THEM THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO CONVEY IF HE EVEN DOES??? GET REAL!!! AND GET OFF MY BACK!!! I'M NOT THE BAD GUY!!! SPEAK TO HIM ABOUT IT!!! NOT ME!!! GOT IT?!?! LIKE YOU TELLING ME NOT TO DO SOMETHING I DON'T DO ANYWAYS IS ACCOMPLISHING ANYTHING!!! ASIDE FROM AGGRAVATING THE LIVING HELL OUT OF ME. LIKE WE'RE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MORONS WHO CAN'T ACT RIGHT!!! IT'S NOT YOU'RE RESPONSIBILITY TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, IT'S OURS!!! OH REALLY? I HAVE A JOB! WHAT'S YOURS? BESIDES BEING A PAPER-PUSHING BUREAUCRAT SELL-OUT HELL BENT ON RUINING SOCIETY AS WE KNOW IT!!!



Man I hate this place sometimes...

EDIT: Here's that sign. What it proves, I haven't a clue...





Do I win?

If you're not part of the solution...then you're part of the problem. I'm part of the solution...are you? REALLY? Not an "a-political" entity just doing what it's told? IOW...JUST THE MAN'S RIGHT HAND? If you're ONLY going to do JUST what THE GOVERNMENT says...then WHO ARE YOU!?!? THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT!!!

Last edited by MudHippy; 12-12-2011 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MudHippy View Post
I don't know what you guys are looking for in terms of proof. But the story is more twisted and devious than I've even divulged. There was most likely a conspiracy of sorts involved with the "closing" of the trail/road in question(no gate last I checked so...is it really "closed"?). It involved a thread about "illegal mudding", my comments in which inspired a certain member(former moderator as a result) here to get on the horn to Tread Lightly(or whomever they're affiliated with these days). Informing them of an area where they needed to step in and start bulldozing every little side road/trail they could find in an effort to stop the "illegal" activities going on there. So that they did, and threw up a few signs while they were at it. Of course any and all information regarding the incident is being withheld by those who are aware of it, besides me(in an attempt to make me look bad I suppose). I do know EXACTLY who did it, and he knows EXACTLY who he is. I respectfully decline to share that knowledge at this time, as a friendly gesture.

What's more?

As a sick little joke they(TL or their affiliates) put in an "ATV trail" nearby for a place to wheel instead. It's up off of Crooked Finger Rd. before you hit the "tree farm"(near Scotts Mills OR). Yeah, you jerkwads know the one I'm talking about. It's officially THE MOST pitiful excuse for a "trail" on the face of this Earth...I can guaranty it. They made some dirt piles near where some old trails were that they happened to be destroying at the time. The dirt came from the countless bulldozer trenches made while "closing" said trails. Marring the landscape in a way magnitudes more harmful environmentally I might add. Anyway, don't blink or you'll miss it. The whole trail MIGHT be 1/16 of a mile long. Just goes up over a couple dirt piles and you're done. WOO HOO!!! Sits on a piece of land that is less than 1/2 acre for reference(I believe it was a small gravel pit originally). Oh...but I forgot to mention...it's FREE. AS IF anybody has, or will, ever use it regardless of the fact that it is.

Here's the trail where the sign was posted BTW.
Point A = 44 53' 01.32" N x 122 24' 34.89" W
Point B = 44 51' 55.33" N x 122 24' 0.74" W


The original sign was torn down long ago(possibly replaced since then?). I think I might have a pic of it somewhere(need to look for it still). They can't hardly do any more than was done though. And the sign was in the wrong place to begin with. You'd have trouble finding the actual trail from where it was posted at the head of the road that connects to it. But these idiots think they can put threatening signs up where ever they damn well please so...

Speaking of which. Here's a clue TL. We/I don't like all your advertisements telling/showing us/me "how trails get closed". That's nice. EXCEPT I DON'T DO THOSE THINGS!!! So why are you warning/threatening me all the time about it??? Maybe you should spend less money griping about the problem(s) and do something about it yourself(that is what you do right?). Stop treating us like little kids who need to be scolded or talked down to. Like we're the ones who are being stupid, irresponsible, criminally/environmentally negligent, or otherwise disrespectful human beings.

DON'T TELL ME ABOUT IRRESPONSIBLE LAND USE!!! TELL THE GUY THAT USES IT IRRESPONSIBLY!!! YOU THINK HE'S READING YOUR PSUEDO-EVIRONMENTALIST PROPAGANDA ADS, OR REALLY SEES THE MESSAGE BEHIND THEM THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO CONVEY IF HE EVEN DOES??? GET REAL!!! AND GET OFF MY BACK!!! I'M NOT THE BAD GUY!!! SPEAK TO HIM ABOUT IT!!! NOT ME!!! GOT IT?!?! LIKE YOU TELLING ME NOT TO DO SOMETHING I DON'T DO ANYWAYS IS ACCOMPLISHING ANYTHING!!! ASIDE FROM AGGRAVATING THE LIVING HELL OUT OF ME. LIKE WE'RE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MORONS WHO CAN'T ACT RIGHT!!! IT'S NOT YOU'RE RESPONSIBILITY TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, IT'S OURS!!! OH REALLY? I HAVE A JOB! WHAT'S YOURS? BESIDES BEING A PAPER-PUSHING BUREAUCRAT SELL-OUT HELL BENT ON RUINING SOCIETY AS WE KNOW IT!!!



Man I hate this place some times...
That was civil and informative

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Old 12-13-2011, 03:23 PM
  #25  
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MudHippy,
I don't really know what to say. It is obvious to me that I will not convince you away from your belief that we are a) closing your trails, and b) nothing more than a government pawn. The proof I believe was requested from you would be something like the order from the land manager (again, not TL!) closing the area to motorized use, for one.

But despite this apparent gap between how we see things, I will take a moment to again answer a couple of your concerns.

Originally Posted by MudHippy View Post
Speaking of which. Here's a clue TL. We/I don't like all your advertisements telling/showing us/me "how trails get closed". That's nice. EXCEPT I DON'T DO THOSE THINGS!!! So why are you warning/threatening me all the time about it??? Maybe you should spend less money griping about the problem(s) and do something about it yourself(that is what you do right?). Stop treating us like little kids who need to be scolded or talked down to. Like we're the ones who are being stupid, irresponsible, criminally/environmentally negligent, or otherwise disrespectful human beings.
We appreciate that you "don't do those things" MudHippy. Many of our ads have been aimed at those who do "do those things", some have not. We also have a number of other things we do to encourage and support responsible use of public lands and stewardship... the Ads are just one small part. If you don't like them, feel free to email me what you'd like to see. Justin (at) treadlightly.org and when we go to design our next campaign, we'll take it into consideration. We already have started discussing our next campaign built around ownership and stewardship of our recreational opportunities, with a very positive message.

We've had a number of different PSA campaigns that have run over the last 20+ years. Some take a more "no BS" approach (which is the current trend with the shooting PSAs) and some take a variety of other different approaches. No single ad or campaign will resonate the same way with such a variety of backgrounds and ideals that our country is blessed with, so we do switch it up from time to time. All our PSAs can be seen here:
http://treadlightly.org/page.php/edu...SAs.html#print


DON'T TELL ME ABOUT IRRESPONSIBLE LAND USE!!! TELL THE GUY THAT USES IT IRRESPONSIBLY!!! YOU THINK HE'S READING YOUR PSUEDO-EVIRONMENTALIST PROPAGANDA ADS, OR REALLY SEES THE MESSAGE BEHIND THEM THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO CONVEY IF HE EVEN DOES??? GET REAL!!! AND GET OFF MY BACK!!! I'M NOT THE BAD GUY!!! SPEAK TO HIM ABOUT IT!!! NOT ME!!! GOT IT?!?! LIKE YOU TELLING ME NOT TO DO SOMETHING I DON'T DO ANYWAYS IS ACCOMPLISHING ANYTHING!!! ASIDE FROM AGGRAVATING THE LIVING HELL OUT OF ME. LIKE WE'RE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MORONS WHO CAN'T ACT RIGHT!!! IT'S NOT YOU'RE RESPONSIBILITY TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, IT'S OURS!!! OH REALLY? I HAVE A JOB! WHAT'S YOURS? BESIDES BEING A PAPER-PUSHING BUREAUCRAT SELL-OUT HELL BENT ON RUINING SOCIETY AS WE KNOW IT!!!



Man I hate this place sometimes...
My job? I am the Education and Stewardship Programs Manager for Tread Lightly! My job description includes designing and implementing educational materials (like the ads of which I asked for your input) and continuing our stewardship initiatives, of which I just awarded $5000 out to member clubs to support their pro-active projects on public lands, in order to maintain access.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f139...grants-243318/

I have spent hundreds of days over the last 3 years standing at dusty trailheads and expos and any other sort of event providing information and answering questions to enthusiasts who may a) not care, b) not be aware, or c) be genuinely interested about public lands.

I will tell you a little bit more about myself too, in case it helps you maybe understand that I (we) are not the enemy you are set on... I have a bachelor of science in land use and resource management, and much to my professors' amusement, almost all of my papers and projects included OHV use and how to maintain a balance between recreation access and environmental stewardship... quite uncommon in that degree program. I have worked in recreation and resource management for almost a decade between city, county, state, and federal governments and the non-profit world. I own a Jeep that despite being a money-sucking project, is still my pride and joy and there are few things that make me happier than getting her out and exploring the thousands of miles of legal backroads and trails open to us. I ride dirt bikes, ATVs, snowmobiles, and recently got into backcountry aviation. Pretty much anything with a motor gets me going. So... Let me assure you that I (we) are not the target.

Here's me by the way, in case you want to ever take aim.



EDIT: Here's that sign. What it proves, I haven't a clue...





Do I win?
Sorry, but what it proves is that the land manager (the Oregon Dept of Forestry - 503-859-2151) closed an area to motorized use, and since we probably have a memorandum of understanding with them as an EDUCATIONAL organization, they are allowed to place our logo on the sign. It happens. Pretty sure I have seen thousands of Tread Lightly! stickers and logos on kiosks and carsonites around the country. Some of those signs are for open areas and trails, some of them are for closed. But the important thing is that due to our agreements with the agencies who manage those areas, is that we provide consistent messaging on respecting those designations, whether we are personally happy with them or not. In fact, we just got done developing and paying for over 2000 kiosks to go out to public land managers to assist with responsible use messaging for shooting and OHV sports.

Here's an example of one of OUR signs.



If you're not part of the solution...then you're part of the problem. I'm part of the solution...are you? REALLY? Not an "a-political" entity just doing what it's told? IOW...JUST THE MAN'S RIGHT HAND? If you're ONLY going to do JUST what THE GOVERNMENT says...then WHO ARE YOU!?!? THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT!!!
I agree that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Somehow, I do think that you and I are seeing not only different solutions, but potentially different problems.

A-political comes from a) our status as a 501(c)(3) organization, and b) our goal to promote responsible public lands use through education and stewardship REGARDLESS of the political environment.

So, who am I? I am Justin. Feel free to email me for additional details. Who are WE? We are Tread Lightly!. A national non-profit organization with the following network of members:

Current Total Members
Individuals: 3,684
Member Clubs: 72
Partner Clubs: 23
Outfitters: 28
Retailers: 44
Dealers: 7
Media: 57
Government: 101
Alliances: 59
Official Partners: 58


MudHippy... If you're still not happy, you have my email. And regardless of whether or not you ever use it, I wish you happy trails.

Last edited by Tread Lightly!; 12-13-2011 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:45 PM
  #26  
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Dear Justin,

Please email me at WabFab at gmail dot com as I'd like to sign up WabFab as a Tread Lightly member. I have been putting it off far too long and your reply sealed the deal.

Kudos to you for your reply!

Brian "Wabbit" Drawhorn
Head Janitor at WabFab

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Old 12-13-2011, 04:03 PM
  #27  
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Done, and thank you.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:49 AM
  #28  
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For what it may be worth... The request for stay of closure was denied. Middle Mountain Road will remain closed at Tuckerville...

Oh well. We tried.


And there is nothing on the horizon that we'll be partnering with TU and SRR with, so no worries there
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:28 PM
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I wish I'd have seen this post prior to predging money to donate for 2012. TL I'll remember you next year.
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