Tread lightly. ??? What's wrong here?
 

DISCLAIMER!! any links provided are deemed NSFW unless otherwise noted. Click them at your own risk. They're links to Pirate4x4 and as many of you know language is not P.C. at pirate.


I'll start my thread with a story to illustrate my question. I then will provide links throughout the story to explain why i'm asking such a question.

I set about my day off working on my rig today with replacing a radiator and other odds and ends that needed attention. I decided that when i took the truck for a test drive i would run out to Cabela's to see about their seat covers i've been looking at for a while now. My wife and i wander around for a bit and look through the store. We find our seat covers are on sale and after taking the long route to the check out line we start the check out process. While paying the lovely cashier asks me if i would like to donate to their wildlife fund. I ask who is the beneficiary? She points to the wall and rattles off a few of them. I look and notice Treadlightly and Trout Unlimited on the wall. Wow! i said out loud as the cashier gave me a perplexed look. No thanks Trout Unlimited has been a big part of closing trails around the country. I took my bags and left. My wife looked at me and asked what was that all about? I proceeded to tell the tail of Tellico and how ecoterrorists like Trout unlimited helped to close trails to responsible people like her and i. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=960348
Here's a thread for reference for those of you that may have yet to hear about Tellico. and here as well. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...t=save+tellico
Apparently i'm not the only one to notice as well. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=705257
Recent events have further proven that Trout unlimited have only paved the way for logging not erosion protection. So does Cabelas just turn a blind eye to this? Why are they playing both sides? Does Tread lightly know about Cabelas affiliation with Trout unlimited? I'm not mad at Treadlightly for wanting to get in on the donations here but just wanted to know what's the story? I'm not too surprised but good God i didn'y think it would be so obvious on a giant wall together. Is Tread lightly sleeping with the lions? Keep your friends close and your enemies closer i guess.

OK discuss! What do you all think?

One or two comments before this thread vanishes...

Tread Lightly is responsible for WAY more trail closures than those they supposedly "keep open".

They are the enemy...not our allies.

Is Treadlightly a wolf in sheep's clothing? Give me some proof. Keep it as P.C. as you can. If it's legit we wouldn't want to give any reason to get a thread axed.

Interesting read. http://www.extreme4x4.com/department...d_lightly.html

They're THE MAN/THE GOVERNMENT. They ARE NOT US!!! They claim that we need them for some purpose, and/or to help support our cause. AS IF they do ANYTHING besides closing trails. Or making us pay money to travel in areas previously free to the public, and/or land that's already public property, by stamping their name on it so it's officially THEIRS(NOT OURS) and is now o.k. to use for OHV recreation(like it wasn't before).

Before Tread Lightly there were more trails than there likely ever will be again, and nobody HAD to pay a dime to use ANY of them. Now they've taken control, restricted access instead of assuring it, making sure that there's less trails than there was(or should be).

THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALL TRAILS CLOSED PERMANENTLY THAT THEY DO NOT ALREADY HAVE FULL CONTROL OVER. AND THAT'S WHAT THEIR BUSINESS REALLY IS. IF I DIDN'T HAVE TO LEGALLY PAY THEM TO WHEEL WHERE I WANT, OR RATHER WHERE THEY SAY I CAN, I MOST CERTAINLY WOULD NEVER DO SO.

Wanna know what started it all for me?

I'd never even heard of them until about 4-5 years ago when they slapped up a sign on an old logging road I travel quite frequently(still do), telling me that I can't use it anymore. Because "it's susceptable to damage when weather conditions are wet". Oh really? Well we've all been driving on it for more years than I can remember without doing a damn thing to it, wet or not. That's just a pile of that ecoterrorist BS, IS IT NOT? Isn't it really that they know it's a road that requires 4WD, and they don't own it YET, so we need to keep off until they do? Yeah...exactly. Right then and there I decided, no, they made the decision for me, they're my sworn enemies. FOR ETERNITY.

Pics?

Say what you want to say but keep it within the rules.

Sorry Mud but I don't see any substantiated proof just your comments, opinions and conspiracy theory. If you got some proof per se, please post it. I'd be interested in seeing it.

:wabbit2:

Thanks Wabbit, I would love to see this remain open as the discussion, if anything, will get people actively thinking about keeping trails open and being responsible. With that being said it wouldn't be the first time a "wolf in sheep's clothing" has graced the offroading community. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...sheep+clothing

another example of trout unlimited and treadlightly "working together". http://sportsmenrideright.org/2011/1...fs-for-access/
Not going to lie the two (trout unlimited and Treadlightly) doesn't sit well with me.
This is an example of them trying to keep access open as opposed to closing it. Read the article. TU is not known for keeping trails open nor have they fought for access.

SRR further explains themselves in this link. http://sportsmenrideright.org/why-join/ Sating that OHV use is a "privilege" (doesn't sit well with me) I don't like my "privileges" being taken away. So now PUBLIC land is a Privilege? Is this what Treadlightly stands for protecting our privileges? I thought they were our rights.

MH: where is this trail/logging road? I am semi close to you, would like to check it out.
I remember when they started putting all the gates up in the late 80's.

I don't even know what to say except this: I am about to jump on a plane and am NOT going to respond to this in detail on my phone, but this thread literally makes my stomach turn.

As a proud 4wheeling enthusiast, dirt biker, snowmobiler, and just about outdoors anything... I will say that my personal feeling is that those of you who feel we are a "sheep in wolfs clothing" are so engrossed in a witch hunt to find someone to blame for trail closures that you have just pulled one of your greatest allies into your little squall.

For the record, if you read the "why tread lightly" thread... I CLEARLY say that we are not about restriction, we are about responsibility. Go have fun. Just do it smart.

...or you can sit on the Internet and e-thug us. Your choice. I have a flight to catch for a meeting to help keep our trails and access available.

Disappointed, but kindly...

-Justin
Justin(at)treadlightly.org

it's sad that most of today's corrupt govt. officials are pushing hypocrisy to the extreme limits.

they name things that are the opposite of what they really do all the time, so it has a disarming, harmless name; but it's definitely wolf-in-sheep-suit material.

nothing can be taken at face value anymore. and the truth can usually only be found by digging through the web and finding the info posted by a very small handful of dedicated individuals, fighting to protect things they believe in, like actually treading lightly.

everything has become so political these days. even the environmental groups, who supposedly care about the environment, are more concerned with increasing their political power.

sure, there's some good grass-roots orgs that put the interest of our nation, or our public ahead of their own personal interests. but they're the exception, not the rule these days.


good luck lookin' out to avoid the traps set by corporate conglomerates who only care about increasing profits at the expense of our nation's well-being.

Justin, Not looking to find a witch here just want some answers to some conflicting information. I could sit here and post a plethora of good things about Treadlightly and how they have improved the offroad community. We all know what Treadlightly has done in the past in reference to teaching offroad responsibility and trail stewardship. With that being said, unfortunately all it takes is one bad instance or "partnership" to call into question an organization's goals and practices. I would have never started looking into Treadlightly's credibility had i not noticed the logo along with Trout unlimited's logo on the same wall. If it's not me(sorry not much of an ethug) it'll be someone else doing the same thing but in a less polite way. All i have is some simple questions backed up by the links i provided. When you get time i would like some simple answers. nothing more nothing less.

Why does it look as though you're partnering with groups known for trail closure (Sportsman Ride Right, Trout Unlimited)? What, if any are your affiliations with Trout unlimited?

Again no witch hunt just some questions that i'm surprised you have yet to answer.
Also We can keep this civil. Please continue to do so. Thanks for responding Justin. You have an opportunity to clear some air with some offroaders that are skeptical. The soapbox is yours when you're ready.

hey J,

if you're really unhappy with what you're seeing here, you have a tough road to walk.

if you really are a righteous organization, then don't lose your cool. you can't express your frustrations which would only contribute to an adverarial, he-said, she-said battle.

you have to instead diffuse the misconceptions and misunderstandings, WITH FACTS ALONE.

simply list the efforts your organization has made, or plan to undertake.

these days, ACTIONS are all that matter, NOT WORDS. people say one thing and do the opposite all day, every day.

when you can compile a list of what your org has ACTUALLY DONE, you will illustrate what your org is ACCOMPLISHING, and THAT is what will allow people to choose to support you willingly.

i know it's hard, fighting back lies is really tough, and really frustrating, and it gets emotional when it means something personal to us.

if your org is truly righteous, then good luck in slowly convincing the public that we're on the same side and have the same belief, which is that public lands should be preserved for public use. keyword: USE, not enshrinement.

Gents,
I appreciate the replies and will get those facts up here as soon as I can get to the computer. iPhone's are great, but not that great...


This is an emotional thing. I fully believe in what I do and who I represent and would never do anything that I did not feel was in the best interest of continuing access to our public lands. Please be patient, but I will have your answers.

Thanks.

Okay guys... Here we go:

Let me first start by saying that I apologize if I offended or brushed anyone the wrong way with my initial reply. As I mentioned, this issue is somewhat personal because when it comes to my work (and who I represent) I take it very personally and with a lot of ownership. You can boil it down to the most selfish, basic reason... I wheel. I want to continue wheeling. I want to be able to teach my (not-yet planned or accidental) kids to wheel. Wheeling responsibly is how we keep that ability.


Now, onto the fun.

Cabelas: Cabelas came on as a Bronze partner a number of years ago and helped us through some branded advertising and product, as well as financial support. They list us as a conservation partner on their website, which is mainly aimed at the "hook and bullet" sportsman crowds. A reminder that Tread Lightly! does not just work with motorized, we work with ALL public lands recreation and access communities. We recognize that many companies will continue to support the organizations that they believe in, and sometimes those causes align perfectly... Sometimes they do not. We are currently in negotiations with Cabelas for future support.

The Extreme4x4.com Link: For what its worth... this article was written on or before Wednesday, September 17, 2003 (from the page info)
We recognize this as well, and the discussion has come up many times recently. For those of you who are familiar with any of my other forum posts, or anything that i've been placed in, you will know that I advocate a slight but important modification... The access to public lands is a RIGHT, but its a right that comes with RESPONSIBILITY. These are public lands, managed for everyone, not just for special interests. Therefore, if we want the ability to exert our right to access, by using motor vehicles, then we need to show that we are good stewards. Maybe i'm making this more difficult than it needs to be... but again, as I said before: "Go play. Do it responsibly please".

First, I would recommend anyone who doesn't understand this very important directive to read the 2005 USFS Travel Management Rule http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/

It was a federal directive to designate routes, going from an "open unless posted closed" to a "closed unless designated open (via MVUM)". Tread Lightly! is a-political in that we do not shape, support, direct, manipulate, etc any legislation. We can provide resources and information used, but thats it. We can assist with implementation. Tread Lightly! was asked to communicate that change, but we did not design it.


Sportsmens Ride Ride Campaign (Trout Unlimited):
I need to make this very clear. Tread Lightly! DOES NOT ENDORSE THE SRR CAMPAIGN. We have worked with them to look for consistent messaging, and even with that there are some severe differences between the initiatives of SRR and Tread Lightly!. We are also not partners with Trout Unlimited.

We however, are joined in on a project in the San Juans with SRR and 2 local motorized groups. I am very familiar with this area, and the situation. I used to run Colorado's Stay The Trail program, and at the request of the Forest Service, spent a week in that area in both 2009 and 2010 during riding season. The agreement is that the signed groups are requesting a "Stay of Closure". That means we are trying to keep routes open by using education and stewardship (which is our mission). I am the TL! point-person for this project. We want to be involved in this because we are talking about overall land access, and how to keep that responsible access available. Sometimes that does involve a partnership that we wouldn't normally go with, but in this case, it makes sense. All said and done on this project, we are hoping to establish a Restoration for Recreation grant program there to repair some badly damaged areas that border the Wiminuche Wilderness.



Now as to some of the things we do for the motorized community:

Respected Access Campaign - New campaign including shooting sports and the "Ride On - Designated Routes" messaging. At the request of the USFS.

Stewardship Grants - We work with Quadratec (sales of TL! branded floormats) to fund stewardship projects nationwide. $500 max, awarded quarterly to member clubs and 3-year members. The map shown on this link is just in the last 6 months http://treadlightly.org/page.php/stewardshipgrants/

Tread Trainer Program - Volunteer outreach program that trains interested volunteers and provides tools to encourage responsible use of public lands. We currently have 410 Tread Trainers and 99 Master Trainers in 43 states.

Educational Materials - Almost 163,000 tip brochures and guidebooks distributed with 100,000 downloads.

Kiosks - Distributed over 2000 kiosks to land managers around the country with consistent messaging for recreational activities.

I am used to some other organizations (who shall remain nameless) accusing organizations such as Tread Lightly and Stay The Trail of "foxes guarding the henhouse". I did not anticipate that going the other way around, hence my initial frustration. We are not a government agency, nor comprised of government employees. The Tread Lightly! campaign did begin under the USFS, but we've been an independent non-profit for the last 20 years.

Guys... I am happy to provide this information all day long. If there are any questions, please feel free to ask. I will try and stay off my soapbox as best as I can :D

Justin, Thanks for the reply. Thanks for the continued efforts. I feel as though you put my concerns to rest.

Mudhippy, he has shown his cards per say with points to back it up. Your accusations might hold some truth but without tact and proof they are just that, accusations. Post up some facts. Please keep it civil if you do. With some tact this may or may not be an opportunity to point out your elephant in the room.

You're welcome. Again, my apologies for coming off a wee-bit brash. Some of the comments made got under my skin.
:oops:

Anyway, please feel free to throw up questions, or ask by email. My email address is in my first reply because I want you guys to feel free to contact me directly, not just be a guy "behind the screen name".

Happy (almost) Thanksgiving everyone. :cheers:





By the way... Just noticed this. Thanks! :tread:

He he, you found the smilie :D

Have a great Thanksgiving too Justin.