Interesting oil filter info
03-12-2010, 06:24 PM
#21
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Mt Goat said:
Yeah, did you see the hole in it?
Yeah, did you see the hole in it?
Last edited by Embfixer; 03-12-2010 at 06:26 PM.
03-13-2010, 05:36 AM
#23
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We have all seen the tests done, but if it will make you happy you can re-post them here if you want.
What's bogus about cutting open a filter and seeing if it failed, or seeing if its a quality filter or a piece of crap?
Why don't you post up exactly what you think is bogus and lets have a discussion about it.
What's bogus about cutting open a filter and seeing if it failed, or seeing if its a quality filter or a piece of crap?
Why don't you post up exactly what you think is bogus and lets have a discussion about it.
Last edited by mt_goat; 03-13-2010 at 09:44 AM.
03-13-2010, 05:49 AM
#24
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https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f123...-engine-89360/
http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php?...ilter-failure/
But of course its much more common that a person runs an OCI, tosses the old filter in the trash and never notices that the POS filter they payed for failed or wasn't filtering the oil like it was suppose to. Its just more wear on the engine, not engine failure.
Last edited by mt_goat; 03-13-2010 at 05:53 AM.
03-13-2010, 09:29 AM
#26
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We have all seen the tests done, but if it will make you happy you can re-post them here if you want.
What's bogus about cutting open a filter and seeing if it failed, or seeing if its a quality filter of a piece of crap? Why don't you post up exactly what you think is bogus and lets have a discussion about it.
What's bogus about cutting open a filter and seeing if it failed, or seeing if its a quality filter of a piece of crap? Why don't you post up exactly what you think is bogus and lets have a discussion about it.
03-13-2010, 09:56 AM
#27
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Maybe, but I welcome input from those that really see a flaw in the info. I'm not trying to prove anything here, just sharing the research I've been doing, which has been eye opening to me. Maybe I was just a stupid goat to start with. 
IMHO, the writeup in the 1st post was very well written by a guy who knows his stuff. Does he provide proof? No. Did he send out scores of filters to a testing lab for performance testing? No. IIRC he mentioned that to professionally test an oil filter would run in the range of $600-$800 each (just going from memory here), so who is going to do that?
The biggest problem I see with the write-up I posted is that (as I posed earlier) it was written with a specific engine in mind (SHO Yamaha engine with very tight engine clearances). Also that engine has an oil filter which hangs straight down, so keep that in mind too.
IMHO, the writeup in the 1st post was very well written by a guy who knows his stuff. Does he provide proof? No. Did he send out scores of filters to a testing lab for performance testing? No. IIRC he mentioned that to professionally test an oil filter would run in the range of $600-$800 each (just going from memory here), so who is going to do that?
The biggest problem I see with the write-up I posted is that (as I posed earlier) it was written with a specific engine in mind (SHO Yamaha engine with very tight engine clearances). Also that engine has an oil filter which hangs straight down, so keep that in mind too.
Last edited by mt_goat; 03-13-2010 at 10:06 AM.
03-13-2010, 10:11 AM
#29
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Yeah here is the quote I was thinking of, from part 5 here: http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-o...n-oilpart5.htm
Inconclusive
Pretty is as pretty does. Ideally what oil filters want to know is will the filter hang together and do a good job cleaning oil. The SAE has standards for oil filter testing and just getting a copy of the standards and test procedures is about $65. The best price I got for testing one oil filter for a MPFE test was $750. So to test our top three choices would cost $2250 and that is the only way to conclusively and independently verify performance. About twenty years ago the sellers of SF grade motor oil tested their own motor oil. That was when GM had all the problems with camshaft wear. When an independent lab tried to verify oil quality I think all but three or four brands were sub standard. For reasons like that, consumers can't accept everything they read on an oil filter box. They tell you they are better than brands "A" "B" "C" and "D". Who the hell is that? The box says their mid line filter is better than someone's $2 special. I hope so. If 2% milk is 2% why can't oil filter manufactures be open and honest with consumers?
Pretty is as pretty does. Ideally what oil filters want to know is will the filter hang together and do a good job cleaning oil. The SAE has standards for oil filter testing and just getting a copy of the standards and test procedures is about $65. The best price I got for testing one oil filter for a MPFE test was $750. So to test our top three choices would cost $2250 and that is the only way to conclusively and independently verify performance. About twenty years ago the sellers of SF grade motor oil tested their own motor oil. That was when GM had all the problems with camshaft wear. When an independent lab tried to verify oil quality I think all but three or four brands were sub standard. For reasons like that, consumers can't accept everything they read on an oil filter box. They tell you they are better than brands "A" "B" "C" and "D". Who the hell is that? The box says their mid line filter is better than someone's $2 special. I hope so. If 2% milk is 2% why can't oil filter manufactures be open and honest with consumers?
03-13-2010, 10:13 AM
#30
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03-13-2010, 06:14 PM
#32
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Gnarly, you may have used them for years with no ill effects, but I suspect you change your oil religiously and use quality oil?
To each his own, but I do so many miles in a year that changing my oil every 3k miles is almost impossible to find time for, so I use Mobil1 Extented Performance and Bosch Distance PLUS oil filter and change it (every 10-12k) when I come home for breaks.
In all honesty if you change you oil every 3k any type of oil and oil filter would be just as good but for ultimate protection and extended OCI I'll stick to the numbers.
To each his own, but I do so many miles in a year that changing my oil every 3k miles is almost impossible to find time for, so I use Mobil1 Extented Performance and Bosch Distance PLUS oil filter and change it (every 10-12k) when I come home for breaks.
In all honesty if you change you oil every 3k any type of oil and oil filter would be just as good but for ultimate protection and extended OCI I'll stick to the numbers.
03-13-2010, 07:03 PM
#33
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Gnarly I work in the heavy equipment industry and have seen first hand failures directly caused by failed filters. Sometimes extreme cold causing the thicker oil to destroy sub standard filters and other times the filter on a machine where a component had been replaced (i.e. final drive, pump, motor etc) and the customer had opted to buy a cheap filter instead of the proper break in filter. Anyway, the cheap filters that fail are the cardboard ones. You say filter failures are "non existent" I have seen them. My $0.02.
03-14-2010, 07:09 AM
#34
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I've been convinced Fram was crap (& all the others relabeled but made the same way) since BITOG did the cut away some years ago. I got on my dads lathe & cut one open & indeed it is true; plastic valves, openings large enough for a finger to pass through, bypass valves that were stuck closed on new filters etc.
gnarly; if you think a half inch hole in the filter media is ok, then by all means....continue to use fram & the clones. If you want your oil to actually be filtered & not just run through a giant hole & back into your engine, then use a Wix.
Gather a team of scientists, pay a huge fee...but you don't need all that to tell you what your own eyes can tell you - a particle this big . will easily fit through a hole this big O
gnarly; if you think a half inch hole in the filter media is ok, then by all means....continue to use fram & the clones. If you want your oil to actually be filtered & not just run through a giant hole & back into your engine, then use a Wix.
Gather a team of scientists, pay a huge fee...but you don't need all that to tell you what your own eyes can tell you - a particle this big . will easily fit through a hole this big O
03-14-2010, 11:55 AM
#35
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03-14-2010, 01:04 PM
#36
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How do you know you've never had a problem with them? Or that they haven't shortened the life of your engine?
The only way to PROVE IT would be expensive & suing would be even more expensive. If I were a billionaire though with nothing but time on my hands I think I would sue them, it'd be fairly easy to win in my opinion (with enough money to fight the fight).
The only way to PROVE IT would be expensive & suing would be even more expensive. If I were a billionaire though with nothing but time on my hands I think I would sue them, it'd be fairly easy to win in my opinion (with enough money to fight the fight).
03-15-2010, 10:08 AM
#37
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It doesn't affect me one way or the other, but as a side note; I believe that with today's high quality oils, you could run an engine with 5K mile oci's with NO filtration & said engine would last to within a few thousand miles (or even less) of what the best filtered one would....barring any non-oil related failures of course.
03-15-2010, 10:34 AM
#38
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... but as a side note; I believe that with today's high quality oils, you could run an engine with 5K mile oci's with NO filtration & said engine would last to within a few thousand miles (or even less) of what the best filtered one would....barring any non-oil related failures of course.
Last edited by mt_goat; 03-15-2010 at 01:09 PM.
03-15-2010, 10:40 AM
#39
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I know I've never had a problem because the oil comes out of my engines clean when using Fram oil filters. As far as shortening the life of an engine, I'm pretty confident that using a Fram filter won't cause the life of an engine to be shortened just because the filter happens to be a Fram. There are many more factors than just the oil filter when it come to engine longetivity
03-15-2010, 11:59 AM
#40
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Not sure I would go that far. Maybe if you had a REALLY good air filter and no air leaks. I've heard some say the best oil filter is a good air filter. Other variables are the air quality, and engine clearances. If you have an engine with 40 microns clearance and you get some 40 micron dirt in the oil you will not last too long I bet.
Hard to say how much life got taken away from the engine(s) by doing that. But I have seen at least one of the vehicles on the road a few years ago & the guy said he got it from the guy I traded it to & had never gone through the engine & I traded it away in 1990.
Yotaman, if your oil comes out clean; you're changing it way to often lol
