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Won't start! Air, fuel, spark, help!

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Old Aug 15, 2011 | 04:02 PM
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Won't start! Air, fuel, spark, help!

My dream truck has always been the 1st gen 4runner 22re. They're rare around here but I just bought one for $400 from a kid who said he couldn't get it to start.
It cranks strong! But there's no combustion.
I tried stepping on the gas pedal when cranking.
No codes.
I pulled the (new) spark plugs and they spark small and white when cranking.
I sprayed starter fluid in the intake and spark plug holes. Still no combustion WTF? (Edit: Will try while cranking.)
I pulled the cold fuel injector and it sprays when cranking (several times then stops.)
I checked and cleaned all the fuses in and out and they're fine.
I cleaned the ground connections and battery terminals.
I replaced the rotor and distributor cap.
The rotor points to cylinder 1 when it stops.
I tried pulling off the air hose.
Air gets blown out the spark plug holes when cranking so I assume the pistons are still there
Time to ask the wizards!

Last edited by Paperweight; Aug 15, 2011 at 06:22 PM.
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Old Aug 16, 2011 | 03:09 AM
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Id start with a compression test. The distributor could be in there wrong too providing all the ingredients you need for fire but at the wrong time.
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Old Aug 16, 2011 | 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasper 83
Id start with a compression test. The distributor could be in there wrong too providing all the ingredients you need for fire but at the wrong time.
You were right! I used a feeler in the spark plug hole of piston #1. I determined that TDC was opposite from what the tensioner notch indicated. I then used a compression tester to determine when the compression stroke ended. For a spark to be at the end of the compression stroke the spark plug wires had to be 90 degrees counterclockwise from where they are stock.
So you're right! Somebody screwed up the distributor installation. It started up after that.
HOWEVER, when running, bubbly oil and antifreeze proceeded to spew from the block-head-timing chain cover joint. The oil is now full of antifreeze and turning to milkshake.
Worth fixing?

Last edited by Paperweight; Aug 16, 2011 at 09:58 PM.
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Old Aug 17, 2011 | 07:01 AM
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that's completely up to you. For the average vehicle owner, no way. But a lot of people specialize in buying cheap vehicles in need of a rebuild and fixing them up. If you've got some money, time, and the 4Runner isn't all rusted out, I'd say go for it!

Post some photos.
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Old Aug 17, 2011 | 08:45 AM
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I don't know if the motor will need new everything after this blown head gasket and 220,000 miles. The problem is I don't have a garage and I'd be working under a tent at best. Hmm It's actually not rusty underneath or on the frame.



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Old Aug 17, 2011 | 01:06 PM
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Yeah, I suppose that's not in such bad shape, rust wise. Certainly not hard to find a nicer example (around here anyways) but probably not for that price.

It all depends on whether you want a "project" or not..
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Old Aug 17, 2011 | 04:22 PM
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just pull the head off. im sure you could alway sell it for 400 and maybe you will find some thing easy like loose head bolts.
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Old Aug 17, 2011 | 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by eric924run
just pull the head off. im sure you could alway sell it for 400 and maybe you will find some thing easy like loose head bolts.
I'm leaning towards doing that! The prev. owner left a box of gaskets on the back seat.
Maybe this is from all the starting fluid and throttle-body cleaner that I sprayed in the cylinders to try to get a sign of life.
What should I do about the milkshake in the crank case? Flush it with diesel?

Last edited by Paperweight; Aug 17, 2011 at 06:24 PM.
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Old Aug 18, 2011 | 04:07 AM
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The head gasket on that isn't a huge project. Id fix it but that's just me. Right now you've only got 400 bucks in it and running right its probably worth 2000 to the right buyer. Gives you plenty of wiggle room. As far as the milkshake goes, when you get done with the headgasket, id change the oil and maybe flush with some seafoam than change it again after idling it for a few minutes. Somebody else might have a better suggestion but that's. What I would do.
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Old Aug 18, 2011 | 06:20 AM
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Unless the oil & antifreeze have been mixed for a while. In that case, your bearings are toast, crank possibly pitted, etc...Full rebuild time. Oil should have been drained immediately as soon as the gasket went.
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Old Aug 18, 2011 | 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 83
Unless the oil & antifreeze have been mixed for a while. In that case, your bearings are toast, crank possibly pitted, etc...Full rebuild time. Oil should have been drained immediately as soon as the gasket went.
Darn it's 48 hours later but I'll drain it now.
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Old Aug 18, 2011 | 09:33 AM
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check to see if you have any timing chain guides left... if not... check to see if it wore a hole in your timing chain cover.. this can all be seen by just removing the valve cover...

as for wht i would do if i were you.... i suggest for peace of mind...take it apart... NOW. don't wait for that crap to sit... and don't expect those bearings and all the parts to be good on that first start after cleaning everything unless you do it the right way....CLEAN and inspect EVERYTHING and rebuild/ replace where necessary.

Last edited by 4x4climber; Aug 18, 2011 at 09:37 AM.
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Old Aug 18, 2011 | 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 4x4climber
check to see if you have any timing chain guides left... if not... check to see if it wore a hole in your timing chain cover.. this can all be seen by just removing the valve cover...

as for wht i would do if i were you.... i suggest for peace of mind...take it apart... NOW. don't wait for that crap to sit... and don't expect those bearings and all the parts to be good on that first start after cleaning everything unless you do it the right way....CLEAN and inspect EVERYTHING and rebuild/ replace where necessary.
OK I've drained the oil, removed the valve cover, replaced the oil drain plug, rinsed all the crap off the valves and timing chain with a gallon of diesel, and I'm taking stuff off to do the head gasket.
The timing chain and guides look to bee in good shape as far as I can see. There's also a timing chain tensioner on the back seat so I'll see if it's still in there

RIVETING UPDATE: Two hours of work and I have the head off! I never thought it would be so easy! I see something suspect in the timing chain cover so I'll take that off too. Hell this is so easy I might as well do the rod bearings too!

Last edited by Paperweight; Aug 18, 2011 at 12:59 PM.
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Old Aug 18, 2011 | 01:16 PM
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Just remember, it all comes apart a lot easier than it goes back together!

But yeah, these engines aren't all that complicated. Get yourself a FSM if you can and pay close attention to the specs, and how things go back together.
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Old Aug 19, 2011 | 10:31 PM
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OK I got the head off and the timing cover off and I'm well organized. The head gasket looked OK except the square part over the timing chain cover. It was pushed in from a previous timing chain cover installation and that's where it was blowing water and oil out.
All of the head bolts were covered in oil, milkshake, or were BURNED and crusty. Why burned? Do I have a cracked head?
Clues
- entire crankcase milkshaked in 10 seconds of running
- no ground strap on rear of head
- rusty looking water passages
- no chain wear in timing cover (I will look closer tomorrow)
- head gasket looked OK and it was the good kind
- cylinders clean and dry
- all head bolts oily, milkshaky, or charred
- previous owner won't answer my phone calls

RIVETING UPDATE #2:
I now think that the oil leak was caused by an improperly installed and crushed oil o-ring, the antifreeze mixture was caused by a poorly installed timing chain cover gasket, and the mixture spray was caused by the frontal part pushed in head gasket due to a poorly installed timing chain cover while the head was in place. The timing chain, guides, and cover were new which leads me to believe the moron previous owner just did it and messed up the timing. Perhaps the oil pan is full of plastic parts.
However, all the head bolts being covered in various goos leads me to believe in some sort of head leak possibly caused by lack of head pressure due to stretched head bolts or something. So I'm grinding them down 1/16 inch on the threaded end.

Although the head seems to be straight according to my grandpa's old carpenter's square, the head bolts are a little bit warped...like 1 mm in the middle or less. Is this normal?

Last edited by Paperweight; Aug 20, 2011 at 11:18 PM.
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Old Aug 22, 2011 | 08:37 AM
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I can't help you much on that, except to say- do NOT reuse the old head bolts and just cut them down. Get new ones. And no matter how nice the gasket looks, there's just no reason not to replace it.

Head bolts could be charred because it over-heated, and that's why the previous owner did all the "work" on the engine. And possibly he didn't use new head bolts. Also, with a bunch of liquid in the threads/bolt holes, and using old head bolts, it's no wonder things weren't sealed up correctly. You want the bolt holes completely dry and as clean as possible, and you want new bolts.

The pinched gasket due to incorrect timing chain work is pretty common. But not good.
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Old Aug 22, 2011 | 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 83
I can't help you much on that, except to say- do NOT reuse the old head bolts and just cut them down. Get new ones. ...
Head bolts could be charred because it over-heated, and that's why the previous owner did all the "work" on the engine. And possibly he didn't use new head bolts. Also, with a bunch of liquid in the threads/bolt holes, and using old head bolts, it's no wonder things weren't sealed up correctly. You want the bolt holes completely dry and as clean as possible, and you want new bolts.
What's wrong with grinding them down, hammering them straight, and cleaning, tapping, and dieing the threads?
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Old Aug 22, 2011 | 11:23 AM
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Search around a bit. Or email Ted at egnbldr.com. Head bolts aren't something you want to screw around with. Honestly it's almost laughable that you're asking if you can do all that to a headbolt with (I'm assuming) a straight face.

But like I hinted at above...I'm not qualified to advise you on why they're charred and bent. That's pretty crazy...
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Old Aug 23, 2011 | 06:27 AM
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Yeah dude spend the 30 bucks or whatever it is and get new ones. Id hate to see you do all that work just to do it again in a week over a couple bucks worth of bolts.
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Old Aug 23, 2011 | 11:29 AM
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Maybe in the states they're $30 but here in Canada I'd have to pay over $100 and I'd get disposable torque to yield bolts.
These are the original reusable type and they're the exact same mm shank length as new bolts with no stretch zones. They should be OK. I'll retorque them after a while.
If they fail it will be my fault and I won't come crying to you guys!
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