Basically here's my problem. Got a old 91 toyota pickup 4x4 3.0 v6 standard with 120k miles. It gets me from point A to point B but I'd like to take it to point C. It's all stock other then the rusty aftermarket headers and magna flow exhaust with cat with a block an torsion bar crank for a 4inch lift on 33x12.50 falken ATZ. I gothe truck lifted already. I live in hawaii and there's mud and sand EVERYWHERE. A lot of the surf spots I go to needs 4x4. The shocks are now blown so are the tie rod ends and drive side cv axle boot has been ripped for who knows how long but dosnt make noise....yet. I haven't gotten stuck yet but I kinda take it easy. It's my daily driver and I want to keep it street legal and able to get safety inspections. I'm fine with the hight and tire size and I don't see my self climbing to much rock-crawling with it but a lot of beach and mudding. I got 3500 to spend and was wondering if I should stick with the IFS or go SAS? Or sell it. Frame rusted only in one spot in front of the passenger side spring perch (needs to be chopped off and welded anyway,might as well chop the other side and put longer springs and the front end is all busted so I might as well chop it off and SAS it is my theory) I been in some SAS trucks and to be honest the way my truck is right now a SAS is smoother and the highest speed limit here is 50mph

 

You can never go wrong with a SAS.

That being said, if you have things starting to go wrong in the front end already, then there is no point dumping money into your IFS just swapping a SFA would be a more worthwhile investment.

I dont know what the Toyota Economy is like over there, but you can get a pretty badass SFA Toyota around here for ~$3500.

If it was me I would probably get another Yota... But I have a vehicle hoarding problem haha

 

That's what I was thinking. Toyotas are gold over here haha I have seen my truck (someone else's same make and model) go for 6000. I got mine for 2500 all rusted out and patched it my self. I wanted to get a 00-04 tacoma but they all want 10k or more with 180kmiles. I was wondering if my front drive shaft wil bolt on a 84-85 solid axle? And how does the 4cyl axle match the v6 rear?

 

With a budget in the range your talking you should also consider a Total Chaos Long Travel suspension. The solid axle is the best for crawling over stuff no doubt. But a long travel independent system is more fun in the sand and mud. You can keep the 33's. Get a real set of springs for the back, you said you just have blocks right now correct? With the long travel lift your front dif stays where it's at allowing for more clearance between the front tires. That helps in mud, less to drag/plow. Plus more fun for racing over sand. It's worth reading up on.

 

This is one of those questions that comes down to just where would you source parts to do Your SAS.

Is buying a Kit with all new parts in the range of the budget??

If sourcing a used Toyota front axle the cost of this plus needed repairing rebuilding be sort of dumb to install worn out parts

While long travel IFS has it points it does not address the worn suspension CV Axles or worn steering parts

Comes down to rebuilding the IFS or doing the SAS when I looked into for doing someone else`s 4Runner the parts costs to do either where not all that far apart .

 

I believe the front drive shaft will bolt right up to a diff from a sfa. However the diff in the front of your truck now is a 7.5" whereas the solid axles all came as 8" so there isn't a lot of reusable parts from your ifs.

 

I'll look into the total chaos setup for sure. I don't think anyone on the island has gone long travel IFS for there pickups so that would be cool to be different but if it's the same cost as a SAS I want the soild axle. Yeah my plan was to go all pro off road kit with 6inch springs front an rear and the guy that would help me weld it up has a bunch of axles laying around. I don't own a welder or no how to weld my self but he said if I helped him it would be real cheap. Thanks for all the great ideas guys!

 

As for sourcing I know a all pro off road distributor that I could pick up parts from on island so shipping wouldn't be a big factor. I would most likely have to costume order the long travel an pay an arm for shipping.

 

The kit for a SAS is about $1300 (doesn't include a SFA) I believe the chaos fab long travel kit is about $3k? The SAS would be a lot more reliable... To me its a no brainer.

Unless I was building some kind d of Baja truck (which would be badass) then I would go with a SAS.

Aloha!

 

You need to research much much more. The price of the kit is only part of the price of SAS.

 

I have to disagree with "can't go wrong with SAS". SAS is for rock crawling. Now I'm not the most knowledgeable person on this site but I've been around a while and had both trucks.

In my opinion, for anything other than hardcore rock crawling, a SA is just not even helpful.

If you want a "go anywhere" in any conditions vehicle, my 87 Subaru GL 4wd Wagon was the best vehicle I've ever owned. 4 wheel drive, completely independent suspension front and back. Plowed through things that would have stopped my truck. Only shortcoming was clearance.

Desert racers are built IFS. On purpose, not because they couldn't afford SAS.

Anyway. SAS is cool and all. But I feel like it's one of those mods that people who know have used for a while, for a very specific purpose. Then everybody else came along and said "hey, if those rock crawlers are doing it, they're super-hardcore, so it must be the thing to do!" and jumped on the bandwagon.

 

83 I'm with you on that last post.

I priced out the Total Chaos setup recently. The kit was about 2 grand plus the axle shafts. So with labor for welding he should still be under 3K.

The solid axle is got a cool retro thing going on and is great for creeping over stuff. But with long travel you open up some fun dune hopping possibilities. If the solid axle was the best option then they probably would have gone solid on the original humvee, which was four wheel independent.

There is a thread somewhere that I've found in the past with someone who went with the chaos setup and dropped an Iforce motor in his 1st gen. It was awesome.

It comes down to what you want to do with it and budget of course. But for playing in the sand and mud I think my choice would be easy.

 

Yeah if you think it through and use experience, you can decide which is best. If you're not rock crawling, but chewing through CV joints...well, maybe you should rethink how you drive But it's your truck, drive it how you want. If you have a reason based on reality to do a SAS, cool.

But it is not necessarily the best option.

 

I also have both types of trucks. An 87, and an 84.

In my experience the maintenance on the IFS has been far more costly, and waaaaay more time consuming, (Lower Control Arm Bushings, and Removing old torsion bars being the biggest PITA out of anything i have ever done with either truck).

I do however agree with having more ground clearance in the front, but you are still dragging one pumpkin through everything in the back.

The only thing that raises your lowest point is tires, so if you were to go with big tires a SFA would hold up better to them as well.

I love the chaos fab kits, but they do end up costing more than a SAS (if you have access to a cheap/free SFA). You will also have to cut your fenders, or install fiberglass ones according to the website.

If i was going to build a offroad race truck, i would go long travel. I dont however drive my truck 60+ mph over mounds, sand, and jumps though.

If it really comes down to budget, i would think you could get your SAS done for less. Use the remainder to put towards bigger tires

 

The sas is certainly more budget friendly even if you buy everything new. He mentioned he had a budget in the $3500 range so I was just kicking out some options. From what I've read you only need to cut or change fenders if you go over 33" tires. He mentioned he was already running 33's so my option kept him with the same tires. Both options would obviously. Just try to help this guy expand his options.

 

Yep, they're all viable options, so long as they're informed.

I just don't like seeing, especially in the newbie section, the idea put out there that a SA is better than IFS in general, or that a SAS is the thing to which all those with IFS trucks aspire, or should aspire.

Personally, I much prefer IFS.

But if somebody just really wants to do a SAS, and has the money, and doesn't care whether it's necessary or desirable or really worth the money, it's their truck and they absolutely can do whatever they want with it. I've done plenty of things that didn't make sense, but I wanted to do them. So I did.

 

You guys nailed it. So now that I'm on computer not the iphone I'll add some more.

factor in:
1- yes, an IFS drive shaft will bolt up to dif and t-cast depending on year of dif flange but IFS has less angle to operate from, think about the IFS driveshaft in pretty much stationary in relation to front ifs dif and t-case when compared to SFA truck. Plus if your 6in springs front and rear mean longer DS and more DS angle. Angle may be extreme enough that it will produce vibes at speed in 4wd. Solution reduction box to decrease operating angle. Well don't really creepy crawlly gears for mud and sand. Maybe need long slip DS added. Yes, ppl have used square DS but no balancing and high probability of vibes at speed in 4wd.
2- 6in springs means your truck gonna look like a roller skate with 33"s so bigger tires, which cost more money.
3- bigger tires mean changing gear ration, so regearing.
4-gonna need to rebuild axle.
5- now figure in labor cost for things you can't do yourself.

So my recommendation:
a- rebuild IFS front. CV axles will be a fairly re-occurring issue depending on operation angle. Replace studs on dif - cv flange with grade 10 bolts. Swap out cv's relatively quick and painless with minimal disassembly of front hub.
b- mild 1"-1.5" body lift or BJ spacers and low profile bump stops. minimal mod's
c- put a locker in rear.
d-fix frame and go with longer lift springs. This may dis-wade from body lift.
e-good set of shocks.
This will let you keep your tires and a good amount of cash. After all it is a 3.0 so headgaskets are regular maintenance with every 2nd or 3rd oil change
Save you cash research and set your rig up for your use.

 

Sold! I like that option a lot cause I can save money for the lockers and motor and there's no welding or serious modding so I can get saftey checks. Just wondering if anyone knows of a proper way to lift the front 5inchs? I'll go with a 5inch spring for the rear since I got a block. I say 5 cause you said put a 1 body and I'd rather go springs. 4 is a little to short for me. The truck went through a recall an the head on the motor was changed so the gastket problem was fixed. And there's a y pie in the headers and is supposed to save the head gastket. It's got some punch compared to most 3.slows

 

Bracket lift would work in the front, or balljoint spacers and cranked torsion bars (Wouldn't recommend the later 2)

 

Yep, he called it.

That much lift without a bracket is gonna kill CVs due to running angle.