Need Some Help With Regearing
05-16-2011, 10:05 AM
#21
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2000 Grand out the door is probably pretty close to the best you will get for a shop to do it all. the rear is easy to get out(set-up takes time) but the front is a bear to remove. and i know when i was quoting my own SAS 4runner for 5.29's i was coming in right around a 1000 just in parts including a front and rear lockrights.
On the tranny cooler I would run both. More protection is better than less...
On the tranny cooler I would run both. More protection is better than less...
05-16-2011, 01:29 PM
#22
2000 Grand out the door is probably pretty close to the best you will get for a shop to do it all. the rear is easy to get out(set-up takes time) but the front is a bear to remove. and i know when i was quoting my own SAS 4runner for 5.29's i was coming in right around a 1000 just in parts including a front and rear lockrights.
On the tranny cooler I would run both. More protection is better than less...
On the tranny cooler I would run both. More protection is better than less...
I would also like to get a locker installed while the differentials are apart but, I can't really afford two right now and I don't think I will ever need dual lockers. So if I decide to get just one locker:
1) Should I get a locker for the front or rear? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each?
2) I am looking at a "lunchbox" locker, what brand should I go with? I am mainly between Lock Right and Spartan because they are within price range.
05-16-2011, 01:54 PM
#23
i would definitely go with 4.88 gears over the 4.56's. parts list they sent you looks correct - has all the gears, lockers, and install items needed to re-gear your diffs. dunno if they gave you pricing on it, but you can buy a rear diff that's already locked, geared, and ready to drop in for around $1000 without core charge. lots of offroad shops carry them, and they're all similarly priced. front will most likely have to be taken in as nobody really sells drop-in IFS diffs.
there are some slightly cheaper options for you if money is tight and you're not ready to spend the extra $ on f/r gears and lockers before your relocation. one option is to just take care of the gearing on the rear diff. this way, you could get away with a drop-in diff for the rear, then take the front to a shop when you're ready. yes, you'll lose 4wd temporarily, but make sure to remove front d-shaft just in case you forget about the mixmatched gears. another option would be to get a non-locked rear diff, then swap in a lockrite when you're ready to do that also, but if you're in there you might as well do it once and not have to touch it again.
lastly, remember that if you regear and add tranny coolers, etc - to break those gears and make sure everything leak free and good-to-go before you're on the road during your trip
there are some slightly cheaper options for you if money is tight and you're not ready to spend the extra $ on f/r gears and lockers before your relocation. one option is to just take care of the gearing on the rear diff. this way, you could get away with a drop-in diff for the rear, then take the front to a shop when you're ready. yes, you'll lose 4wd temporarily, but make sure to remove front d-shaft just in case you forget about the mixmatched gears. another option would be to get a non-locked rear diff, then swap in a lockrite when you're ready to do that also, but if you're in there you might as well do it once and not have to touch it again.
lastly, remember that if you regear and add tranny coolers, etc - to break those gears and make sure everything leak free and good-to-go before you're on the road during your trip
05-16-2011, 03:03 PM
#24
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4.88s for sure. Don't want to have to re-do it again as soon as you step up to 35's or 37's.
I would lock the rear first. They are stronger and will hold up better than the front will to the locker.
Buying a done rear diff then getting the shop to just redo the front my be a good option if you can reinstall the rear yourself. And you will save money if you carry in the front Diff to have regeared you might save a few bucks.
I would lock the rear first. They are stronger and will hold up better than the front will to the locker.
Buying a done rear diff then getting the shop to just redo the front my be a good option if you can reinstall the rear yourself. And you will save money if you carry in the front Diff to have regeared you might save a few bucks.
05-16-2011, 03:04 PM
#25
i would definitely go with 4.88 gears over the 4.56's. parts list they sent you looks correct - has all the gears, lockers, and install items needed to re-gear your diffs. dunno if they gave you pricing on it, but you can buy a rear diff that's already locked, geared, and ready to drop in for around $1000 without core charge. lots of offroad shops carry them, and they're all similarly priced. front will most likely have to be taken in as nobody really sells drop-in IFS diffs.
there are some slightly cheaper options for you if money is tight and you're not ready to spend the extra $ on f/r gears and lockers before your relocation. one option is to just take care of the gearing on the rear diff. this way, you could get away with a drop-in diff for the rear, then take the front to a shop when you're ready. yes, you'll lose 4wd temporarily, but make sure to remove front d-shaft just in case you forget about the mixmatched gears. another option would be to get a non-locked rear diff, then swap in a lockrite when you're ready to do that also, but if you're in there you might as well do it once and not have to touch it again.
lastly, remember that if you regear and add tranny coolers, etc - to break those gears and make sure everything leak free and good-to-go before you're on the road during your trip
there are some slightly cheaper options for you if money is tight and you're not ready to spend the extra $ on f/r gears and lockers before your relocation. one option is to just take care of the gearing on the rear diff. this way, you could get away with a drop-in diff for the rear, then take the front to a shop when you're ready. yes, you'll lose 4wd temporarily, but make sure to remove front d-shaft just in case you forget about the mixmatched gears. another option would be to get a non-locked rear diff, then swap in a lockrite when you're ready to do that also, but if you're in there you might as well do it once and not have to touch it again.
lastly, remember that if you regear and add tranny coolers, etc - to break those gears and make sure everything leak free and good-to-go before you're on the road during your trip
So, it looks like I am going to go with 4.88's over the 4.56's for sure.
I also think that I am just going to go ahead and spend the money to get both of the differentials regeared and lock the rear differential with a Lock Right locker. I have done a little research and it looks like I can get all the parts I need from here: http://completeoffroad.com/ for right around $1,000. I have called around some local shops and most places quoted between $800 and $1,000 for labor if I bring them all the parts so I am thinking that is the best and cheapest way to go. I figure that the rear locker will be sufficient for now and I can always lock the front in the future if I want to.
Yeah I leaving for DC in about 4 months so I am trying to get everything done now so I can make sure that everything is broken in and working properly before I take on a 1,500 mile road trip.
Thanks again for all the input highonpottery, it really helped to put everything in perspective.
Does anyone have any thoughts on Lock Rights vs. Spartans and other lunchbox lockers?
05-16-2011, 05:03 PM
#26
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I have called around some local shops and most places quoted between $800 and $1,000 for labor if I bring them all the parts so I am thinking that is the best and cheapest way to go. I figure that the rear locker will be sufficient for now and I can always lock the front in the future if I want to.
05-17-2011, 06:15 AM
#27
4.88s for sure. Don't want to have to re-do it again as soon as you step up to 35's or 37's.
I would lock the rear first. They are stronger and will hold up better than the front will to the locker.
Buying a done rear diff then getting the shop to just redo the front my be a good option if you can reinstall the rear yourself. And you will save money if you carry in the front Diff to have regeared you might save a few bucks.
I would lock the rear first. They are stronger and will hold up better than the front will to the locker.
Buying a done rear diff then getting the shop to just redo the front my be a good option if you can reinstall the rear yourself. And you will save money if you carry in the front Diff to have regeared you might save a few bucks.
I just did some more searching and found that I can get a complete rear 3rd with a Lock Right locker for about $900 after the core charge is returned. So, if I can get the rear off myself, this would definitely be the best and cheapest option...However, I have never taken apart a differential...How difficult is it to take apart the differential, install the new 3rd, and disconnect the drive shaft until I can get the front regeared? Does anyone have a writeup that I can follow?
Hey scuba, I think that my post might have confused you... I would just be ordering the rings, pinions, master install kits, etc. to save some money but they would still be doing all the work to disassemble, install the gears, and reassemble the differentials. Does $400 a differential still sound high for that kind of work?
05-17-2011, 09:40 AM
#28
if you're also paying them to take out/reinstall the differentials, then $400/per is not THAT bad considering it's around $250/ea just for gear setup. $150 extra to pay someone to R/R your front diff is not bad - it's like a 2-3hr job to take out and reinstall this heavy and awkwardly shaped hunk of metal that's wedged in between all your front-end components. sure, you could do it yourself if you have time and a desire to do so, but sounds like you're not interested in that.
rear diff is definitely an easier job to do, dunno if it's worth that much in labor but again takes time. if you're going to do the pre-assembled diff then perhaps this is in your interest. basically the chunk is held on there by the bolts around the perimeter of the diff, the drive shaft, and the axles which pass through the diff. there are plenty of write-ups on how to pull your rear diff.
to generalize it for you:
- pull diff fill plug, then pull drain plug and drain gear oil
- jack up rear of rig and put on jack stands
- now start taking off anything connected to the diff.
- mark drive-shaft's connected position with paint or a punch, then unbolt the diff-end and swing out of the way
- take off rear wheels and anything connected to the hub/axle assembly like brake lines and e-brake cable. abs sensor to diff if you've got one.
- now you should be able to pull out your axles/hub assembly - there are 4 bolts on each where they connect to the housing. make sure that when you pull them, you pull them straight and don't let the weight rest/damage the axle seals.
- now the only thing holding the diff on are the bolts around the face of the diff.
i think i got that all right, check writeups or the FSM for more specific directions. re-install is basically the reverse - put everything back, torque it down, and bleed brakes. some things to think about addressing "while you're in there" would be replacing the rear axle seals if they're old and leaky, service rear brakes, extend diff breather, etc.
oh yeah...another good thing to put on your list of things to buy are low-profile magnetic drain plugs for your diffs.
for your front d-shaft disconnect, just mark the connections with paint or a punch so they line up when you re-install, then pull the bolts connecting to the diff and t-case flanges. done. reinstall with thread locker is not a bad idea.
rear diff is definitely an easier job to do, dunno if it's worth that much in labor but again takes time. if you're going to do the pre-assembled diff then perhaps this is in your interest. basically the chunk is held on there by the bolts around the perimeter of the diff, the drive shaft, and the axles which pass through the diff. there are plenty of write-ups on how to pull your rear diff.
to generalize it for you:
- pull diff fill plug, then pull drain plug and drain gear oil
- jack up rear of rig and put on jack stands
- now start taking off anything connected to the diff.
- mark drive-shaft's connected position with paint or a punch, then unbolt the diff-end and swing out of the way
- take off rear wheels and anything connected to the hub/axle assembly like brake lines and e-brake cable. abs sensor to diff if you've got one.
- now you should be able to pull out your axles/hub assembly - there are 4 bolts on each where they connect to the housing. make sure that when you pull them, you pull them straight and don't let the weight rest/damage the axle seals.
- now the only thing holding the diff on are the bolts around the face of the diff.
i think i got that all right, check writeups or the FSM for more specific directions. re-install is basically the reverse - put everything back, torque it down, and bleed brakes. some things to think about addressing "while you're in there" would be replacing the rear axle seals if they're old and leaky, service rear brakes, extend diff breather, etc.
oh yeah...another good thing to put on your list of things to buy are low-profile magnetic drain plugs for your diffs.
for your front d-shaft disconnect, just mark the connections with paint or a punch so they line up when you re-install, then pull the bolts connecting to the diff and t-case flanges. done. reinstall with thread locker is not a bad idea.
05-17-2011, 10:15 AM
#29
Again highonpottery, I can't thank you enough for all of your help!
I did some searching and I was able to find two good writeups on how to pull the rear differential and I think that it is something that I can handle so I think that I end up buying the complete 3rd with a Lock Right locker pre installed and install the complete 3rd myself. It will save me some $$ in labor and I like doing things myself and learning how stuff works so it is a win-win in my book.
As far as the front differential goes, I think I am going to do the same thing as the rear differential. I can get the complete front differential for $600 unlocked or $885 locked. I would just take it somewhere to have them install it. Most places said they could install the complete differential for about $200-$250 which sounds pretty reasonable to me. That would give me an overall cost of somewhere between $1,700 and $2,000 depending on labor costs and whether or not I decide to get the front locker.
One thing that the writeups did not address is marking the driveshaft...Would I be marking it to make sure that the holes line up or to make sure that the driveshaft doesn't spin while I have it disconnected. Basically, where would I be marking the driveshaft?
I will definitely be replacing the drain plugs because last time I changed the oil in my differentials, I almost stripped them...Any ideas as to where can I get the low profile magnetic drain plugs?
That is a good point about the rear axle seals, that sounds like something I should replace while I have everything pulled apart. Is that as simple as pulling out the old one and dropping in a new one? Is that something I would have to go to the stealership for or can I find them somewhere online?
Sorry for the novel and thanks again for your help highonpottery!
Jimmy
I did some searching and I was able to find two good writeups on how to pull the rear differential and I think that it is something that I can handle so I think that I end up buying the complete 3rd with a Lock Right locker pre installed and install the complete 3rd myself. It will save me some $$ in labor and I like doing things myself and learning how stuff works so it is a win-win in my book.
As far as the front differential goes, I think I am going to do the same thing as the rear differential. I can get the complete front differential for $600 unlocked or $885 locked. I would just take it somewhere to have them install it. Most places said they could install the complete differential for about $200-$250 which sounds pretty reasonable to me. That would give me an overall cost of somewhere between $1,700 and $2,000 depending on labor costs and whether or not I decide to get the front locker.
One thing that the writeups did not address is marking the driveshaft...Would I be marking it to make sure that the holes line up or to make sure that the driveshaft doesn't spin while I have it disconnected. Basically, where would I be marking the driveshaft?
I will definitely be replacing the drain plugs because last time I changed the oil in my differentials, I almost stripped them...Any ideas as to where can I get the low profile magnetic drain plugs?
That is a good point about the rear axle seals, that sounds like something I should replace while I have everything pulled apart. Is that as simple as pulling out the old one and dropping in a new one? Is that something I would have to go to the stealership for or can I find them somewhere online?
Sorry for the novel and thanks again for your help highonpottery!
Jimmy
05-17-2011, 10:37 AM
#30
All the big on-line shops carry the drain plugs, Marlin, Trail-Gear, etc. or you can get them from Toyota, I think the 3rd gen 4Runners use those on the front diff or trans/t-case.
Mark the shaft across the slip yoke, that is what needs to be realigned if it gets pulled apart (a.k.a. phasing):
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri....shtml#Phasing
Mark the shaft across the slip yoke, that is what needs to be realigned if it gets pulled apart (a.k.a. phasing):
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri....shtml#Phasing
05-17-2011, 03:37 PM
#31
All the big on-line shops carry the drain plugs, Marlin, Trail-Gear, etc. or you can get them from Toyota, I think the 3rd gen 4Runners use those on the front diff or trans/t-case.
Mark the shaft across the slip yoke, that is what needs to be realigned if it gets pulled apart (a.k.a. phasing):
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri....shtml#Phasing
Mark the shaft across the slip yoke, that is what needs to be realigned if it gets pulled apart (a.k.a. phasing):
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri....shtml#Phasing
05-19-2011, 03:35 PM
#32
If I take the complete drop-in front to someone I am thinking that I can get it done for about $150-$200 which would bring the grand total to about $1,700. If that is the case I might even get a front locker too. Are there any disadvantages to having both front and rear lunchbox lockers (auto-lockers)?
06-14-2011, 09:32 AM
#34
I am getting pretty close to having enough money to go through with the regearing process but I still have a couple of questions:
1) Since I am installing the rear differential myself and saving some money on labor I am considering getting Lockright lockers for both the front and the rear differentials. Does anyone see any problems with having "lunchbox" lockers in the front and rear?
OR
2) Should I just spend some extra money to get a Detroit or Detroit True Trac locker in the rear and leave the front open?
1) Since I am installing the rear differential myself and saving some money on labor I am considering getting Lockright lockers for both the front and the rear differentials. Does anyone see any problems with having "lunchbox" lockers in the front and rear?
OR
2) Should I just spend some extra money to get a Detroit or Detroit True Trac locker in the rear and leave the front open?
06-15-2011, 06:57 AM
#35
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Lunch box front and rear. You will love it if u have manual hubs. If auto hubs you might not like the turning ability. Some people don't mind it and say the added traction is worth it.
06-15-2011, 12:15 PM
#36
i think what you need to ask yourself is "what are my plans for THIS vehicle?"
if you plan on wheeling it hard someday then you'll probably regret not going with the beefier carrier found in a Detroit or ARB. if you "just need a locker" and aren't doing hardcore stuff all the time with big heavy tires, then a lunchbox locker will most likely be fine. personally, i chose to go lockrite because i know that I will be wheeling my truck, but not hardcore since it's a fairly clean truck - when it's time for me to go hardcore, I'll get a 2nd vehicle and put all the beef into that rig, which i'll have saved $ for over the years.
good luck man - wise choice on installing the diffs yourself, the labor should cover your locker.
if you plan on wheeling it hard someday then you'll probably regret not going with the beefier carrier found in a Detroit or ARB. if you "just need a locker" and aren't doing hardcore stuff all the time with big heavy tires, then a lunchbox locker will most likely be fine. personally, i chose to go lockrite because i know that I will be wheeling my truck, but not hardcore since it's a fairly clean truck - when it's time for me to go hardcore, I'll get a 2nd vehicle and put all the beef into that rig, which i'll have saved $ for over the years.
good luck man - wise choice on installing the diffs yourself, the labor should cover your locker.
06-15-2011, 12:43 PM
#37
i think what you need to ask yourself is "what are my plans for THIS vehicle?"
if you plan on wheeling it hard someday then you'll probably regret not going with the beefier carrier found in a Detroit or ARB. if you "just need a locker" and aren't doing hardcore stuff all the time with big heavy tires, then a lunchbox locker will most likely be fine. personally, i chose to go lockrite because i know that I will be wheeling my truck, but not hardcore since it's a fairly clean truck - when it's time for me to go hardcore, I'll get a 2nd vehicle and put all the beef into that rig, which i'll have saved $ for over the years.
good luck man - wise choice on installing the diffs yourself, the labor should cover your locker.
if you plan on wheeling it hard someday then you'll probably regret not going with the beefier carrier found in a Detroit or ARB. if you "just need a locker" and aren't doing hardcore stuff all the time with big heavy tires, then a lunchbox locker will most likely be fine. personally, i chose to go lockrite because i know that I will be wheeling my truck, but not hardcore since it's a fairly clean truck - when it's time for me to go hardcore, I'll get a 2nd vehicle and put all the beef into that rig, which i'll have saved $ for over the years.
good luck man - wise choice on installing the diffs yourself, the labor should cover your locker.
Thanks! I am only doing the work on the rear differential because the front is too much of a PITA, but that should still allow me to save enough money to get a Lockright for the front if I want to...
Anyone else know of any pros/cons of having Lockrights in both the front and rear as opposed to just having one in the rear?
06-15-2011, 01:37 PM
#38
Registered User
I have 4.88s in my v6/auto and they are nice, but if you plan to add a lot of weight to your truck (i.e. skids, sliders, bumpers, winch, tools, etc..) I would go 5.29s. My 4.88s made up for the tires, but not the weight. If it's going to be mostly a DD though, 4.88s will be the best IMO.
I personally think lunchbox lockers can really suck in snow. In deep snow they will be great, but I went with ARBs because I have to drive a lot in different kinds of snow. There are lots of days where I have to be in 4x4 but not all of the road is covered in snow. On the parts of the road that don't have snow on them, you'll either have to be shifthing in and out of 4x4 a lot or put up with very stiff steering if you have a lunchbox up front. The rear is easier to deal with in snow and just takes some getting used to. But I much prefer a selectable if you have to drive a lot in the snow. Ther are just times when it's better to be locked and other times when it's not better.
And, if you get an external tranny cooler, BYPASS THE STOCK INTERNAL TRANNY COOLER INSIDE YOUR RADIATOR. Running both coolers would be even more efficient and it's a good idea on most vehicles. But, the 3rd gen 4runner's stock cooler is known to fail and cause the "strawberry milkshake" which is what happens when the internal cooler ruptures and the tranny oil mixes with the coolant and ruins your tranny. It's fairly common if your radiator is over 150K/10 years old. Not bypassing the internal one could cost you a new tranny.
I personally think lunchbox lockers can really suck in snow. In deep snow they will be great, but I went with ARBs because I have to drive a lot in different kinds of snow. There are lots of days where I have to be in 4x4 but not all of the road is covered in snow. On the parts of the road that don't have snow on them, you'll either have to be shifthing in and out of 4x4 a lot or put up with very stiff steering if you have a lunchbox up front. The rear is easier to deal with in snow and just takes some getting used to. But I much prefer a selectable if you have to drive a lot in the snow. Ther are just times when it's better to be locked and other times when it's not better.
And, if you get an external tranny cooler, BYPASS THE STOCK INTERNAL TRANNY COOLER INSIDE YOUR RADIATOR. Running both coolers would be even more efficient and it's a good idea on most vehicles. But, the 3rd gen 4runner's stock cooler is known to fail and cause the "strawberry milkshake" which is what happens when the internal cooler ruptures and the tranny oil mixes with the coolant and ruins your tranny. It's fairly common if your radiator is over 150K/10 years old. Not bypassing the internal one could cost you a new tranny.
Last edited by brian2sun; 06-15-2011 at 01:45 PM.
06-16-2011, 08:21 AM
#39
I have 4.88s in my v6/auto and they are nice, but if you plan to add a lot of weight to your truck (i.e. skids, sliders, bumpers, winch, tools, etc..) I would go 5.29s. My 4.88s made up for the tires, but not the weight. If it's going to be mostly a DD though, 4.88s will be the best IMO.
I personally think lunchbox lockers can really suck in snow. In deep snow they will be great, but I went with ARBs because I have to drive a lot in different kinds of snow. There are lots of days where I have to be in 4x4 but not all of the road is covered in snow. On the parts of the road that don't have snow on them, you'll either have to be shifthing in and out of 4x4 a lot or put up with very stiff steering if you have a lunchbox up front. The rear is easier to deal with in snow and just takes some getting used to. But I much prefer a selectable if you have to drive a lot in the snow. Ther are just times when it's better to be locked and other times when it's not better.
And, if you get an external tranny cooler, BYPASS THE STOCK INTERNAL TRANNY COOLER INSIDE YOUR RADIATOR. Running both coolers would be even more efficient and it's a good idea on most vehicles. But, the 3rd gen 4runner's stock cooler is known to fail and cause the "strawberry milkshake" which is what happens when the internal cooler ruptures and the tranny oil mixes with the coolant and ruins your tranny. It's fairly common if your radiator is over 150K/10 years old. Not bypassing the internal one could cost you a new tranny.
I personally think lunchbox lockers can really suck in snow. In deep snow they will be great, but I went with ARBs because I have to drive a lot in different kinds of snow. There are lots of days where I have to be in 4x4 but not all of the road is covered in snow. On the parts of the road that don't have snow on them, you'll either have to be shifthing in and out of 4x4 a lot or put up with very stiff steering if you have a lunchbox up front. The rear is easier to deal with in snow and just takes some getting used to. But I much prefer a selectable if you have to drive a lot in the snow. Ther are just times when it's better to be locked and other times when it's not better.
And, if you get an external tranny cooler, BYPASS THE STOCK INTERNAL TRANNY COOLER INSIDE YOUR RADIATOR. Running both coolers would be even more efficient and it's a good idea on most vehicles. But, the 3rd gen 4runner's stock cooler is known to fail and cause the "strawberry milkshake" which is what happens when the internal cooler ruptures and the tranny oil mixes with the coolant and ruins your tranny. It's fairly common if your radiator is over 150K/10 years old. Not bypassing the internal one could cost you a new tranny.
I hear what you are saying about driving in the snow. I don't drive in the snow a whole lot as of now because I am going to school in Texas and some people down here don't even know what snow is
. However, I do like to go snowboarding and I will be moving to Washington D.C. in a couple months and they actually get snow up there, but I still don't think that I will be driving in the snow a whole lot. So, I think that I should be ok with just lunchbox lockers in the front and rear. As far as the external tranny cooler, I am one step ahead of you
... I installed mine a couple weeks ago and completely bypassed the stock tranny cooler. I have read way too many threads about guys who have gotten the dreaded strawberry milkshake and the headache they cause, so I definitely didn't want that to happen to me. I haven't updated my build thread with the details of the install yet because I am still waiting on a part to install my transmission temp gauge...
06-16-2011, 08:51 AM
#40
just gonna throw in my 2 cents, I wouldn't put a lunchbox in the front or rear if you don't wheel it that often. The front CV's can't handle the stress and you'll probably not enjoy DD w/ one in the rear. Pick up an elocker for the rear, I just bought one locally for $300! I still need to regear it and mod my housing but since its already out I can just take it to a local shop for the regear. ECGS is the best so just have them do the regear (if you don't want an elocker) and bask in the glory of a 5yr warranty! You WILL need armor and skids if you wheel it, take the money you planned on using for a trail rig and buy yourself a camry so you can wheel the piss out of the 4Runner you already have.
