jefferson82

I just bought a 1993 4 runner 22re. the previous owner painted everything underneth including the dif's. what is the stock rear end in this? dana? im looking to do the gears but need to know what brand the front and rear end is, gears are 4:10

xxxtreme22r

front 7.5" rear 8" factory should be 4:10 if it's a manual trans. http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/

please do not mention dana and toyota in the same thread. lol. J/K

jefferson82

I know but what brand are the difs? i want to change the gears from what i've heard there are brand specific gears

sebastianholmes

uh, toyota, like the truck.

slacker

iTrader: (1)

no , dana is a domectic diff .. theses are TOYOTA , unless they have beenswaped to domestic axles ?

.

jefferson82

sorry did not know Toyota has there own brand of diff's

slacker

iTrader: (1)

if going by your avatar ??? maybe the SAS used a domestic axle ?


.

jefferson82

As far as I know everything undernieth is stock

xxxtreme22r

why does the brand matter when changing gear ratios? Am I missing something? unless they are 4:88's then any brand ring and pinion will work. But yeah TOYOTA is the brand.

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

"Toyota" is the brand, though they were likely produced by an outsourced company. Just like "Toyota" doesn't produce hubs, Aisin does.

However, Toyota labels and markets the products as their own, so you can't go to the "supplier" and talk to them about the products. If you are looking for parts, just ask for parts for a Toyota. Its that simple.

Btw painting everything means nothing. Toyota didn't have any stickers or labels on the rear axle (unless it had LSD, but thats a different story) so it wouldn't help you even if he didn't paint it.

jefferson82

i'm switching to 4:88's so what you are saying is I can buy and brand of ring and pinion? Don't different brands have there own specs, or they are all the same?

xxxtreme22r

4:88's are 4:88's what gets tricky is don't get toyota brand 4:88's they will not work, maybe that's what you heard. IIRC toyota used a different carrier on the trucks with factory 4:88's.

jefferson82

Thanks for the help thats what i needed to know !!!!

xxxtreme22r

I might not be accurate in the way I am describing the 4:88 factory gears, but I know I am right in saying brand does not matter now another thing you have to be careful with is v6/turbo vs 4cyl. make sure you get ones for the 4cyl. not the v6/turbo.

MudHippy

Just to clarify(hopefully), the ring and pinion gears are mostly the same for V6/Turbo diffs and 4cyl diffs made after 85. The carriers, the 3rd members, and all the bearings are different though. So besides the actual ring and pinion, parts aren't swappable between them.

The only condition that needs to be met there is the design of the pinion gear. There's two types, LPH(Long Pinion Head)and SPH(Short Pinion Head). Everything after 85 will be of the LPH type, and therefor will be useable in either V6/Turbo or 4cyl diffs, but requiring a different inner pinion bearing and crush sleave/solid pinion spacer for each respectively. SPH gears from before 86 will only be directly swappable between 4cyl diffs. They will fit ANY 4cyl diff from 79-95, but will need a "thicker" inner pinion bearing for a 79-85 diff to work in a 86-95 4cyl diff. Because in reality there's no difference between 79-85 and 86-95 4cyl diffs. The only difference is the inner pinion bearing required to fit the SPH or LPH gears in them. A "thinner" bearing is required to accomodate the LPH gears, due to the added length of the pinion. SPH gears will actually work in a V6/Turbo diff too, but will need extra inner pinion bearing shims to make them work. Why? Because it already has a much "thicker" inner pinion bearing than either, but that's designed to sit farther away from the ring gear in the housing to accomodate a LPH pinion gear. And because none any "thicker" are available, none are "thick" enough to set the SPH pinion gear as far out as it needs to be in the V6/Turbo diff.

Sound confusing? You're telling me! I can only pretend it isn't still a little confusing to me too. But I'm pretty sure I get it now...for the most part. Read this if it's not too clear the way I've explained it. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=73

On the 4.88 issue, it's not the carrier that's necessarily different. It's the same carrier as the V6/Turbo diffs. The 3rd member is what's different from other V6/Turbo diffs. That 3rd member will only accept factory 4.88s. The problem arises due to the pinion being offset towards the ring gear to accomodate the thinner ring gear. Thicker aftermarket ring gears make fitment impossible for lack of sufficient backlash adjustment being achievable. Since these particular 3rd members are relatively rare, it's not economically feasible for companies to make gears to fit them. When they can make 4.88s to fit ALL other 8" 3rds with just a one size/thickness of ring gear.

Carrier being defined as the part that holds the actual differential gears(spider/pinion and side gears).

xxxtreme22r

thanks mudhippy, but if this guy or someone like me just wants plug and play gears (R & P's), they have to order a set meant for 4cyl or v6/turbo respectively right?

slacker

iTrader: (1)

if the avatar is correct .. and the vehicle we are talking about
you have an 90-95 4runner , with a solid axle ..


there were NO solid axles in these years in North America .. so .. is this a "toyota axle" or dana ?



.

xxxtreme22r

looks like a bracket lift IFS to me.

slacker

iTrader: (1)

yep .. ok .. my bad ..


.

MudHippy

No, sort of(but not really), depending on where you buy them, and/or the application which you're asking for.

Some aftermarket sets will be the same ring and pinion for both. In that case they will usually be designed specifically for the V6/Turbo diff with an upgraded(slightly larger diameter)pinion gear, but will also work in a 4cyl diff as well. Some will be labeled specifically for V6/Turbo or for 4cyl, even though they both will work in either. But in that case the ones labeled for the 4cyl will have the pre-88 LPH pinion gear which has a slightly smaller diameter. But will also still work in a V6/Turbo diff too, despite being labeled for the 4cyl. No one(not even Toyota)still makes the SPH gears because they're slightly weaker, and LPH gears will work in the pre-85 diffs, which are identical to 86-95 4cyl diffs.

What I'm getting at is, no matter what they're labeled, they will all still work for any 8" application. It's mostly just the inner pinion bearing being specific to the diff you're using. That and the crush sleave/solid pinion spacer is also specific to each. It's thicker walled, and shorter in length to accomodate for the much "thicker" inner pinon bearing, in the V6/Turbo diff. Although the V6/Turbo outer pinion bearing is an upgrade from the 4cyl too, it fits either without any fitment issues(same "thickness"). So you can actually use either outer pinion bearing in either diff, but to always use the V6/Turbo outer pinion bearing regardless is a smart move too.

Generally the gears labeled for V6/Turbo will be the ones with the larger diameter pinion gear. So you pretty much always want the ones labeled for V6/Turbo diffs. Unless you're cheap, and in that case you get what you pay for. If more people were aware of that fact, that would likely be all that were sold. But people just aren't, so they still do.

Hence this quote from the link I showed you earlier:

Which is true. There's no such thing really. But you can get pinion gears atleast that ARE different, larger in diameter, from some labeled for 4cyl. But that doesn't mean you can't use them in a 4cyl diff. Get it yet?


See this link for more details.
http://www.northwestoffroad.com/part...ngnpinion.html