michael, do you have AOL IM?

 

nope, never IMed in my life (well briefly w/icq). feel free to email me -- see my profile.

 

At the moment I will not be able to answer all of your questions, but should have some free time tomorrow afternoon. 4route and I talked for a while this evening on aim, and came to the following conclusion for her runner.

She is going to add my 3/4" spacer to the front of her suspension, and run it in conjucntion with the larger black revtek spacer as I am. In the rear she is going to purchase the downey lift coils, and then have me trim her revtek poly spacer accordingly to meet her desires.

In regards to what is currently on the market for our 4th gens, if feel that this is both affordable and a pretty strong setup. In an ideal world and if money wasnt an issue, custom coils for the rear and coilovers in the front would probably be the best perfoming setup, but we have to make due with what is out there. Again, i think the revtek plus my 3/4" top spacer in the front and the downeys plus the revteks in the rear is a pretty solid scenario.

I am not very familiar with the daystar spacers, but those of you who are running them and want a little more height should swing the specs of the spacers my way and we can go from there. I see no reason why we cannot improve upon their height if that is what you desire.

Ahriman-
If you are interested in the 3/4" spacers that I am fabbing, let me know.

We are going to fab up 5 sets of spacers in the shop tomorrow. If there are any more of you out there that want to give me a for sure confirmation, please let me know asap. We can talk things out over IM like 4route and I were able to do tonight if that is feasable.

Pan hard drop brackets are also in the works for those of you who are interested.

Billy

 

Yeah. I need to do this.

My buddy and I (both have revtek lifts) have a firend across the street who has all the tools to fab this, possibly making it cheaper for me, HOWEVER there are a number of variables and if the work has been done and these are accurate and solid (I feel I can trust your word )- I think I need to be added to the list. You take paypal?

 

SD4Runner ... just in case Billy is busy, I thought I could help out by at least letting you know that he'd rather do money orders.

 

Not to flame anyone of burst their bubble..

The Rear:
If you plan to get the Downey rear coil and add any spacer using your stock shock (those of ya with the xreas system), you will likely destroy your shock. Problem is that you will gain soo much lift from the coil and spacer (approx 4.5") and this means your shock will be 4.5" extended. This means that your travel will be severly limited and once the rear wheel is off the ground, it will overextend the shock thus potentially destroying the shock. You will be required to add limiting straps and limit the downward travel of the shock itself. Without this you risk a high potential of throwing the shock and thus having no rear suspension. Those without xreas MUST get longer shocks and extend the rear brake lines. THIS IS A MUST. I really wouldn't recommend this for any of the xreas users. I think the travel of the shock will be limited extremely that it's is not safe.

The front:
It looks okay as you are adding the trim spacer on top of the top plate thus not changing too much of the shock travel length.

There is a reason why both daystar and revtek limit their spacer size. Ofcourse if they wanted to go abit more they could have easily done so but they understand the limitation of the stock configuration that it is not recommended. This is also apparent if you look at the previous generation 4runners as well. Most all of the manufacturers limit the lift to 3 inches to avoid any liabilities.

So in the end, for all of ya xreas members, I'd say be happy with the 3" inches of lift and be done with it. Your biggest limitation is the xreas system itself. Like I have said in the beginning lifting a xreas 4runner will be difficult, if not impossible. I commend all of ya for lifting the xreas to this point. For those of ya that don't have xreas, I can only say that you must upgrade all parts to ensure the safety of yourself and the well being of others around you. You should take into consideration upgrading the shock itself along with lengthening the necessary brake lines. Adding limiting straps as well as bumpstops should be considered.

Lifting your truck is one thing but doing it the wrong way is another. Be very careful in your endeavors and make sure you understand the repercussions prior to taking this leap.

Now you guys might ask why I have the Downey coils and the Daystar spacers. Simply put I have a rear steel bumper that has significantly lowered my rear. My current rear setup puts be at around 37.5-38" from the bottom to the fender (285/75/16). This is about the same figure that I had when I first got my rear Downey kit. Actually I was sitting at about 39" but then settled to about 38". The rear steel bumper as taken approx 2" away from that setup that required me to add the Daystar 2" spacer to offset the weight in the rear. If I did not have my rear bumper, I would have been pretty content w/ the rear Downey kit.

Now as for rubbing issues. If you have A/T tires, you probably will not rub. I don't know the exact details as I have never tried A/T tires so I can't comment but I know that M/T tires are abit bigger than the A/T tires. If you don't plan to offroad and just want to run 285's, then rubbing will be minimal. Rubbing becomes an issue for any gen 4runner with running 285's and offroading. This is expected as you are adding a significant tire size increase from stock.

Specifically on the 4th gen, if you run the M/T's expect to see rubbing on the rear mudflaps (including the rear bumper) and front bumper and front mudflaps. You shouldn't encounter any rubbing on the inner fender but that will be highly determined by what setup wheels you get. Rubbing on the cladding should not occur as I've yet to rub in those areas. If you trim the necessary rubbing areas while using the 285's, you should be able to trim down the rubbing section. This is expected as everyone running 285's have run into this problem (regardless of generation).

Sorry for the long post but I'd hate to see anyone damage their 4th gen for getting too greedy. Do alot of homework and study the suspension in detail. Compare the design to previous gen 4runners and see what is different and what is not. There is a wealth of information out there (regardless of gen or vehicle) that we can learn from. Just remember limitation is limitation... You can only go soo far and after that, you just gotta start customizing.

Good luck everyone That's my $1.99 for now

Edited:
If you guys really want more lift, look into body lifts. (obviously nobody any for sale but maybe Roger Brown will make some?)

 

STOP FLAMING ME AND MY DREAMS OF DONUTS AND LIFESAVERS!

I was primarily worried about rubbing issues, as I am unsure of how much butchering I will have to do, at current height, to run the 285s. However, if you could take a second sometime and explain to me what parts, exactly, might have to be trimmed to run MTRs, then I could probably make a better informed decision about this.

I don't want to do anything unsafe, and I don't want to ruin the shocks or the xreas system. I am okay with 3" if I can get 285s in there without having to cut off important parts of the body/fender/bumper.

 

With my 285/75/16 Good Year MT/R's:

I had to remove:
Front and Rear MudFlaps

Trim:
3"x6" triangle on the bottom of the front bumper (end). This section will rub at full lock.

When offroading very aggressively, you will encounter some rubbing on the rear bumper but depending on how fast you are offroading, this will either sound like someone ripping the rear bumper off or sound like basic rubbing of the rear bumper.

Slow is good

 

yeah, i guess i just don't picture what the 3x6 triangle is.

what did you use to trim this part? teeth?

slow is good, that's right!

 

well I'd show ya by taking a pic but I won't have my dig can until sunday Then at that point I'd need someone's front bumper to show ya!

I'll explain as best I can: (red circle... faint)


This is the best pic I can find using your 4runner. Anyway, you'd have to trim that corner of the bumper.

Looking from the side:
make a imaginary line from the bottom corner of the bumper. (closest to tire).
Then go up 3" (towards the hood). start cutting point.
End cutting point by drawing a line 6" towards the front of the bumper. It should look like a triangle.

Now also take into perspective that you'll most likely have to remove the inner plastic fender piece but I'd say try to retain as much as possible (especially for the passenger side). The reason is because your stock air filter starts there. If you are prone to wet weather this plastic fender is the only piece protecting you from sucking up water (hydrolocking... no no).

 

is that a better picture?

yeah... hydrolocking would not be cool at all. thank you for helping out, Lance, and for pointing out that because of my xreas system, it would be stupid to lift any higher. well ... not stupid, but, .... stupid.

 

Take a look at the red triangle:
it should be 3"x6" or so.. it's all relative as I don't have the bumper anymore so I really can't say.



Also if you look at the yellow, that's another part you might want to remove too but I don't remember if you really need that part or not. When I trimmed my bumper, I ended up removing the entire inner fender liner. It was fun while removing it but I quickly realized that the air filter hole was right up there and this liner was the only thing protecting it from sucking water I've yet to fix this by making the "BRUCE" 99 cents special snorkle system.

Hope this helps.

 

ah crap. that does help. it helps me to realize that i would be an idiot to try that. i don't have the tools or a steady enough hand not to really butcher the whole thing.

thanks though, lance.

 

good ol pocket knife will do. Just takes abit of tugging but the bumper is pretty flexible so it's really not that hard. Once you get going it'll cut pretty easily.. Alot easier than I first realized.

 

that's a hard place to cut though because if you make even a tiny mistake, it will be very visible and look bad ... and my hands are not steady, at all. oh well. yarrr.

 

I fully understand Lance's post. Very informative, alot of it common sense from lifting my previous vehicles.

I primarily want the thicker spacer for levelling purposes. I have the longer shocks in the rear and the front seems to still have good enough downward travel. By adding a thicker top steel spacer ONLY to my NON-XREAS system. You think I'm running any risk? I'm thinking it's pretty safe. I do want any extra opinions as it relates to my setup directly.

I don't plan on running tires that will rub. Most likely I'll just go up 1 size and be happy. I like the look of a little room in the wheel wells Plus I like my acceleration, etc. Some nice wheels and a cool tire one size up and that shoudl be a pretty solid setup, no? Everytime I;ve gone to too big of a tire I;ve run into problems. Learned my lesson.

I'm a big fan of the "level truck" and this seems like a perfect finish to my lift.

 

Well, this thread has become quite interesting, but first of all everyone must understand what Lance said is entirely true. From my perspective I am not taking into account all of the trimming and other modifications that I have done just out trial and error, experience, and a good understanding of what is happening throughout my entire suspension system.

To begin, I will state that I am not versed at all in what the x-reas system can or cannot due, and DO NOT WANT TO LEAD ANY OF YOU X-REAS OWNERS ASTRAY TO MAKE MODIFICATIONS THAT COULD DAMAGE YOUR VEHICLE. If you were willing to scrap the x-reas and return to a normal/typical setting of unlinked shocks, etc, then there is not much to worry about other than a bunch of trimming.

Here is what I have done to make all of this work. This is probably going to suprise most of you, but you do need to know the entire truth and I am going to tell you all that must be done, instead of just assume that these are things that would be common knowledge.

Trimming, grinding, etc:
I HAVE TRIMMED EVERY FENDER OF MY 4RUNNER. The diagram that Lance gave was all that I had to do to fit my 33's, and I would assume that for the majority of 33/285 scenarios that the trimming he showed would be enough.

When I jumped from the 33's to the 315's(35's), the major work began. I cut almost 4" off the bottom of my front bumper in a curved line back toward the tire, ending the trim about 3-4" below where the bumper meets the rest of the body. My inner fenders are almost completely removed. My intake hole has been plugged. All mud flaps have been removed. Front pinch welds have been pounded and ground flat from the bottom of the fender up about 12-15". The rear part of the front fender where the mudflap once attached is gone. This part of the fender has been trimmed a good inch at the bottom and also is then curved back to the normal lines of the fender as it moves up. Keep in mind that I also have the Inland Truck upper control arms. These were a must to keep my larger tires and wheels from rubbing/scraping the stock control arm. My spindles have ben ground down in two locations to remove the little triangular shaped bumps in prevention of further tire/wheel rubbing. When I added the 22's and the 325/50's(nearly 36's) I had to remove a section of the frame in the front. Yes, THE FRAME. The part I have cut off has no residual effect on the structure and strength of the frame, but was a good day or two worth of work with rented equipment / aka a huge ass grinder. If you look under your vehicle directly behind the front fender, you will see that the frame forms a triangle shape with a squared off end as it heads toward the fender. This entire piece was ground off all the way back to where the body is connected to the frame. We then welded in a small piece to take care of any sharp edges, add a small amount of strength, and also work asthetically to make the shape of the frame in this location appear unouched. With all of this work I have absolutely no rubbing in the front with the 36" tires.

Now, the rear. Again, Lance hit the nail directly on the head with all of his information. My brake line has been extended. My mudflaps are gone. When wheeling very hard with my 315's/35's I not only rubbed the back of the rear fender, but also the front. Trimming has been done on both sides of the tire to prevent any further rubbing. My pan hard bar has been dropped nearly 5". My front sway bar is gone, and my rear sway end links have been extended.

I hope and pray that I have told you all that I have done to make my suspension and wheel/tire setup a functional one. If I am going to promote a part, I need to assume all responsibility for the repercussions.

THERE IS AND NEVER WILL BE ANY INTENT TO MISLEAD ANY OF YOU, BUT I DO ADMIT THAT IT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE YOU ALL KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING INTO. A TON, AND I REPEAT, A TON OF WORK HAS BEEN DONE ON MY VEHICLE TO GET IT WHERE IT IS. MY MISTAKE HERE IS THAT SINCE EVERYTHING WE HAVE DONE HAS BEEN TOP NOTCH IN WORKMANSHIP, IT IS NOT PHYSICALLY NOTICABLE OR VISIBLE TO THE NAKED EYE, OR EVEN THE FAIRLY OBSEVRANT ONE FOR THAT MATTER.

PLEASE READ THRU ALL OF THIS VERY CAREFULLY AND ASK ME ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE. I HOPE THIS HELPS, AND TRULY APOLOGIZE FOR NOT MENTIONING ALL OF THIS FIRST.

I think that about does it. Also, my rear shocks have been replaced with BDS shocks for a Jeep that have 12" of travel.

If we are going to do this, I want to make 100% sure that each and everyone of you knows exactly what you are getting yourself into.

Billy

 

Hey Billy, you want to add me to that custom spacer set. I could use an extra pair and would rather not go back to my well (buddies shop) so quickly. I did have mine made but prefer not to use up too many favors!

I'll get you some $ out before I leave town on Friday. Just set one pair aside for me if you would. Going on my buddies 04!

Thanks a ton,

Doug M.

 

Doug - what have you done on yours ... you have XREAS too, so what extra lift have you done???

Billy, keep me on the list, I may very well just add the front spacer because the truck is still not level.

 

Well, I hope this info has helped you all gain a better understanding. Four sets were completed today, with a 5th set that just needs to get drilled tomorrow morning.

Here is where I assume we stand from the responses, etc.

02runner - panhard in mail, spacer set #1 will go tomorrow
4route - holding set #2 for you
timber725 - holding set #3 for you
ahriman - holding set #4 for you
SD4Runner - holding set #5 for you

So, there are the first five if I understand you all correctly. Please respond asap so I can confirm and get your addresses, etc. The easiest way to pay me / my shop is thru a $$ order to the following address:

Nitrous Enterprises attn. Anthony
2511 Rose Street
Bozeman, MT 59718

Doug, I have no doubt in your interest, so yours have/will be shipped asap. If you other four could get back to me that would be great. We need to figure out if more sets must be fabbed, etc.

Billy