Chuki

I've been doing the Headgaskets on my 4Runner with no budget at all. I've spent just about every penny I can right now trying to get it fixed.

Well I got everything I "thought" I needed, and had the headwork done as neccesary. Prepping the heads I'd remove the sparkplugs. Well now would be a good time for a new set anyway. Well one sparkplug was giving me some trouble, I shot it with some PB Blaster and let it sit for awhile, then proceeded to take the sparkplug out, at the beginning it took WAY WAY to much to get it out, I was thinking stripped threads and whoever before put plugs in just forced it all the way in. well I don't know exactly why, the sparkplug looks okay, theres a little carbon buildup but not much so I don't understand, but this happend. (see attached pic) The white you see is a broken piece of the casting for the sparkplug threads.


What do I do now? I'm thinking if I just bust that peice off (really small peice) I'll be ok, but I don't know!!! And I have no money to know what to know either.

Help please!

Thanks

regularguy412

Umm,, did the threaded area of the spark plug break off still part-way in the plug hole? If that's the case, I'd take the head to the machine shop, as is. I'm sure they have a procedure to remove such stubborn objects without damage to the threads in the head. That'll be a lot better than tryin' to fix a stripped plug hole.

Mike in AR

trx125

What I want to know is which shop did the headwork? I have never taken a head to a machine shop to have them reworked and cleaned that they did remove the plugs or have you remove them before they clean and resurface them! I would take it back and ? why they left the plugs in and what they are going to do to fix this! Just my .02!

Chuki

I took it down with the sparkplugs in. No they didn't remove them (a little peaved there) I don't know if it was broke before or after I took the sparkplug out. The sparkplug was in there real good, It took a 1/2" ratchet to break it loose. The threads aren't stripped I can run another plug down it just fine. It's just that busted peice and took a chunk out into the head and the crack goes into the head, so I'm thinkin the head is toast.

I paid a little much for this work, $75 to be exact. And that was to have the heads machined and CLEANED!!!! And the damn things were leaving carbon deposits all in the trunk of my wifes car! Ontop of that when I took my head over to my uncle to see what he thought of that chipped off peice, we found METAL SHAVINGS deep inside the exhaust port sitting on the valves. You couldn't see them unless you got some sort of reflection.

What pisses me off more now is I've already torqued down the driver side head, and now I need to take it back off and check and make sure no metal shavings are in that one either. So I have to get another headgasket I don't want to use a pre torqued headgasket specially not with this picky ass 3.0. If it was 22R I'd take my chances. Specially since its so much more easier to replace the headgasket in that anyways!!!!

I can get another head for about $150 or so, but I don't have $150!!! I bummed the money to get the damn kit!!! and this ÅÅÅÅ happends!!! **** IT ALL!!!!!!

Chuki

The threads are fine, well not totally fine but I could stick another sparkplug in there just fine and be ok with its. It's the broken peice, you can see where its cracked and protruding. The casting thats inside of the combustion chamber, is where a piece got broke off and the peice went down pretty deep inside the head, that it seems the head is worthless now.

regularguy412

I took a closer look at the pic of the head you posted. Looks like the crack you are talking about is at the 5 o'clock position in the spark plug hole. It kinda travels down toward the area between the valves , but a little closer to the exhaust valve. I'm certainly no mechanic, but I'd almost bet that area would never hold compression. I still take it back to the machine shop and ask some questions. If it was running OK before the rebuild, I'd think someone there owes you an explanation; if not money back.

Mike in AR

MMA_Alex

heads can usually be welded if they crack. It would probably be worth going to the machine shop and raising hell, and see if you cant get em to weld it for free, or give you a refund or whatever.

Chuki

I'm taking the Driver side head back off today, and monday I'm taking both heads back down and asking them what they plan on doing to get this fixed. They better make it right though, otherwise I'll never take anything there again. I took my heads to this guy cause everyone kept saying how good of work he does. The machine shop I used to go to, was shut down. I wont say which machineshop it is, I want to give the guy a chance to make it right. If he doesn't then I will state which machineshop cause I don't want anybody else screwed. Plus he'll lose some good business from me, I work on good ole 22R's all the time and constantly having machine work done to the heads and blocks, I'll take em elsewhere.

trx125

Looking at the pic, was the pic taken before the head was serviced! If not, that head wasn't cleaned worth a S%^T! I still see carbon build up on the valves and combustion area! What he clean it with, a toothbursh and dirt! I would take it back and get your monry back and find another place to have them done!

Chuki

It is AFTER I had the work done.

Chuki

Went down to the machineshop... Machinist just told me he hot tanked, and pressure washed the heads... I showed him the metal shaving in the head, he apologized and got all that stuff out.

I then showed him the peice of the sparkplug that was broken, and he said he's seen it many times, and I wont have any trouble with it at all... So I'm going to put it back together, I told him if I put it back together and that cylinder comes up dead, I'm driving it right down to his shop, and he said and I quote "Bring it on". So I'll keep you informed. If worst comes to worst again, I'll need a cylinder head, like I was looking for.

When I put it back together, if it's running good I'm going to give it hell to make sure its not going to develope into a crack.

MMA_Alex

That machine shop dosent sound very professional. you could probably get a lot of that carbon off with a wire brish, and some kerosene

Chuki

I've wired brushed some of it. Some came off not alot though. He told me all he did was hot tank the head, and pressure wash it... Thats what it says on my reciept though. I told him he shouldn't tell people its cleaning of the heads. Should tell them what it is, it just soaks and get the majority off. If they want it spotless that will cost extra.

At this point I'm tired of working on it, and I just want it running. I'm still keeping an eye out for another head though, just in case...
I told him though if I have problems I'm dropping the entire truck off down there and he can fix it for me. He said and I quote "Bring it on"

trx125

He said Bring it On to get you gone!

wrenchmonster

Terrible machine shop work. Absolutely unprofessional. I'd have another machine shop take a look and get a second opinion on the spark plug hole. Have a different machine shop make the repair.

Oral contracts don't mean a thing. I would not expect someone who does such shoddy work to stand up to an oral contract. In my opinion, the spark plug hole looks to need repair. Also, at this point you'll want to pop out your valves and make sure everything is clean. Replace your stem seals. Do a flow test on your valves.

Perhaps the guy who did the work expected you would do this after the fact, but he should have made clear what he was going to do. Poor communication on his part.

The long and short of it is: Find another machine shop and drop this gomer like a rock.

javadoody

wrench is dead on! don't put it back together until another professional shop looks it over thoroughly. heck, there's no way that guy will ever come through, "bring it on" or not. sounds like nothing but trouble. sorry about the experience.

Chuki

Lemme clear somethings up... The sparkplug broken peice may have been my fault, when removing sparkplugs 5 came out just fine, 1 was a PITA, that was the one with the broken peice. The guy wasn't trying to get rid of me, I BS'd with him for almost an hour... He's the guy everyone refered me to for machine work. The combustion chambers are 1000x cleaner then they were. They could be cleaner, but to get them any cleaner I'd have to have them beadblasted. He said if I wanted them bead blasted the best way is to take the heads apart. And that gets spendy... I understood that. He also showed me another head with a chip on the sparkplug like that not as bad.

The threads on each of the 6 are fine, they aren't brandnew, but they're fine. Just like any other head with 150k+ miles. What you see in the picture is actually penetrating oil. PB Blaster to be exact, I used that to help loosen the sparkplug.

As far as cleaning again, compaired to what they were they are 1000 times cleaner. Not perfect, but way way better. If I wanted them any cleaner I'd have to bead blast them.

On another note I did get a few more opinions, a mechanic buddy of mine says he's seen that a few times on engines, and they seem to be ok. I was running some errands and passed by a local custom machine shop, that doesn't specialize in auto, but custom machining, the guy said personally he wouldn't worry about it, and would just run it. He gave me a speech on aluminum, and that its very uncommon for aluminum heads to crack even if you have chipped a peice off. But he told aluminum does warp easy. He talked to me about engines that blow headgaskets and overheat, and then people dump cold water into it. He said the heads will warp, the rings and block will crack. Then he told me to take it to the guy that machined the heads flat. I told him what he said, then he said "Well there ya go, put it back together and run it"

On my Receipt, it says "Resurfacing heads" $30 x 2 (2 heads $30 each), hot tank $13 x 1... When I asked him what he did, he said he hot tanked and pressure washed the heads. Compared to what they looked like, thats what it looks like to me.

My problem is not really with the machining of the heads, or the cleaning. They aren't spotless, but when does steam and pressure take everything off? My main problem was the broken peice. And I've had 3 people tell me its ok. I'm still keeping an eye out for heads, although I've found a place locally where I can pick up heads for cheap. So all i'm risking is some time and another headgasket.

The guy was really cool about it when I went down there and he could tell I wasn't happy... but like I said I was down there for awhile BS'n, and I've already been in contact with him since then. I was BS'n about my 82' with him, and he wanted a hook up some Yota parts, I hooked him up. (He needed a front axle for a SAS he's doing) I found one, called him and told him. We BS'd about the engine I built thats in my 82', he asked me to swing it on by one of these days so he could check it out... In all fairness I would say I kind of made a bud.

I didn't pay though to have the combustion chamber cleaned spotless, I mainly wanted most of the buildup off of there, and I want the intake and exhaust passages cleaned up, and thats what he did. I've had heads hot tanked before by the machineshop I used to go to, and the heads came out in about the same condition, most of the buildup and grime that just settled came off, but carbon buildup on the face of the valves didn't come off. If I gave this autoshop a $150 I'd expect that, but machining of both heads and hot tanking came to $73. Thats both heads, not just one. I'm used to having my 22R heads worked on and it costing me about $40 total.

I understand where you guys are coming from, and I appreciate the concern, but I didn't want these head rebuilt, all I really wanted was for them to be machined flat because they were both warped... I plan on replacing the engine in it someday for soemthing with more pep, I just want this rig running so I can use it... I have a source for new heads if I need them, I have source for headgaskets, and if it does go, I wont need to do both gaskets, I'll just replace the one side, and I could probably do that in about 4-5 hours. I'm sure once I get it back together and get it up to operating temp I'm sure that'll tell me right there whether its going to hold or not... And I'm somewhat confident it'll be alright. I've dealt with many 22Rs and cracked 22R blocks, and many many warped 22R heads, but never a cracked 22R head. Hell I worked on a 22R head that had been warped probably 9 times or so... Till the lower end finally gave out, the problem with that was .040" cylinder, .020" pistons. Oversized rings... I had another 22R built and I still see that yota on the road every now and then.


Enough rambling, I understand and appreciate your guys's concern.. If I had the $$ and the will to dump it into a 3.0, I would have had diffrent headwork done.

wrenchmonster

Sounds like you've got things squared away, and that you are staisfied, though maybe not happy.

Please take to heart my advice about oral contracts. I don't mean to preach, but I've been burnt bad on oral contracts. And trying to prove them in court is impossible. If a business man is serious, he'll feel fine about putting it in writing and signing it.

Don't get me wrong. I love people who do business with a handshake, and people who give and keep their word. The unfortunate reality is that people like this are very few and far between. I won't even consider doing business on a handshake unless I have done previous business and know the individual to be of exceptional character. My 2 cents.

Chuki

I understand.... It's not really an oral contract, its just he seemed pretty confident that it would be fine, that if it isn't. He wants to see it to beleive it.

Like I said, he was pretty cool about it, and like you said, I am Satisfied, but I could be happier. At this point I'm not looking into rebuilding or anything. I want to put as little money as possible into this 3.0. I just want it back on the road, and thats all I care about.

If the head does end up cracking, y'know I took my chances, and at this point I'm really only out the cost of a headgasket, but if it does hold up just fine, then hey saved the price of another head.

Chuki

Thought I would bump it back to the top, run into a headbolt issue that me and EB are dealing with...

But I showed it to EB (engnbldr.com) and he said it should be ok. So if this happens to someone else, don't freak like I did, just put it together and you should be ok.