hansee

Hit a rut a little too fast with my 89 4x4 pickup and tweaked something in the (independent) front suspension. I poked around for a while measuring stuff but couldn't figure out what bent.

The bend isn't too bad - I took it to an alignment place and they were able to realign it but had to leave the steering wheel off center to do it. Drives fine now, no vibration or pulling even at freeway speeds. The guy at the alignment shop said I should just pull off the steering wheel, put it back on straight, and forget about it but I'd kinda like to replace whatever bent.

Any suggestions?

MudHippy

Idler Arm. Get new bushings and rebuild if you haven't bent the shaft. Order a new one, if you did. Because if you just bend it straight, like I did, it won't hold it's shape, and your new bushings will go quicker.

celica

Check your distance on the space between the rear control arms - it should be 17". It has no brace like the front one.

hansee

Sorry, which one is the rear control arm? Not familiar with that term.

I will take a look at the idler arm.

Thanks for the help.

MudHippy

The crossmember that the front differential housing is mounted to, is also a brace for the control arms. The measurement he's saying to make would be near the opposing end of the differential, where there's no brace. Unless you have an after-market one installed. That width, from right to left between the control arms, the driveshaft(flange) is located nearly within that space for more reference, should be exactly 17".

hansee

Ok, I think I see what you're talking about. You mean the part that's welded to the frame and sticks down and is the rear pivot point for the lower suspension arm? I measured from the inside face of that piece (the face that points towards the input of the front diff) to the same place on the other side and it was a hair over 16.5" so it looks like that's my problem.

I'm guessing that's not an easy fix, seeing as its part of the frame. Looks like the alignment shop already cranked those two adjusting discs where the lower arm mounts about as far as they'll go (front one in, rear one out). I guess I can just live with, although I don't see how that piece being bent would make the alignment shop unable to center the steering wheel. Maybe the tech just didn't know what he was doing.

MudHippy

OUCH! I can tell ya that would be definetly the problem. Maybe a frame wizard could fix ya up, who knows? But, you won't not be able to fully align things the way they are. Other components will bear the extra burden of being tweaked out of square there, too. I hope you get it fixed up, if you can. Good luck.
One quick thought, if all else fails, go bang it down on another rock, see if it will widen that out some, not too much.

hansee

Hehe, yeah, maybe I'll go find that rut and take it at 30 in reverse. Anyways, thanks for the help.

tc

Ummm - I don't think you were measuring the right place, 'cuz the truck would not be alignable if this were that far out.





If it's truly bent that way, I think you could get a porta-power or high strength jack in there and push them apart a bit.

tc

Did you have the steering relay rod recall done? If so, make sure it's straight - the recall replacement ones bend pretty easy...

Oh - the "gotta take the steering wheel off" is a common lazy-ass-alignment-tech-cop-out-excuse.

Bigblock

Correct me if I'm wrong,but the newwer models should be 17'' and older models should be16.5''. 89 up being newwer.Either way that being bent will not stop you from centering the steering wheel,UNLESS you diamond the frame,which throws the rear end out of thrust angle,which throws the steering wheel off center.Got it?Now take it back,make them do a 4 wheel alignment just to see if the thrust angle is off.If it is it's frame shop bound.If it ain'task him exactly what is out of spec and write it down.Then get back on Yotatech and give me (us) the specs.We'll go from there.

Bigblock

BTW those frame rails spread with abuse, not close up.

hansee

tc: Yup, thats the measurement I took. Laid the ruler up in those little half-circle cutouts. I just went and rechecked it - its 16-5/8" exactly.

That piece being bent inwards is consistent with what the alignment shop did - they adjusted the rear pivot point of the lower arm outwards and the front one inwards to get the caster/camber back in spec. Its also consistent with what I did - I hit a fairly deep rut with the right wheel which I imagine would torque rearward on the lower suspension arm, forcing that mount inward.

3yotys: I sure hope the frame isn't bent in a diamond shape. It wasn't too hard of a hit. The alignment between the cab and doors and bed is all still dead on.

I had the report from the alignment but now I can't seem to find it. They were able to get everything in spec except for either the caster or camber (I can't remember which), which wasn't out of spec by much.

20005spd

all i have read is this first post and i must say, dont go to that shop again. if this place was any good, they would have found what was wrong with the suspension and fixed it before aligning it. what kind of hack job place would just do the alignment for you, then tell you to take the wheel off and move it, omg i just cant imagine being one of those kinds of people. guess what your going to have to do when you fix that suspension problem.......ALIGN IT AGAIN. and if you moved the steering wheel good luck getting it back to its original spot.
i didnt read any of the other posts so for all i know you may have fixed it already but i just wanted to say, that guy is a friggen HACKER!!

MudHippy

Yeah, it's probably close enough, but if it is supposed to be 17", try a bottle jack to push 'em out a tad, like tc said there. Then realign. About the steering wheel, if not the idler arm, or the relay rod, it's probably the tie-rod ends are not adjusted to equal lengths. Maybe that's what needed to be done to attempt alignment, I don't know.

PSmith

old thread, but i searched and this seems to be the closest to what i'm looking for.

here's my dilemma. i picked up a '91 IFS 4x4 in pretty bad shape to tinker with as a project truck.

with the torsion bars set at the same height on both sides, and all four lower arm alignment cam bolts in the same neutral (hole down) position i have MAJOR negative camber on the passenger side.

something is definitely bent on this truck, but both visually and with a tape measure or degree finder i can't figure out what it is for the life of me.

i measured the rear lower control arm gap as mentioned above and i'm at 16 5/8".

should a 1991 measure 16.5" or 17"??

if i should be at 17", and i'm at 16.625" i theoretically should have POSITIVE camber, not negative... correct?

any insight to this would be greatly appreciated. i'll be tearing apart the front passenger side as soon as i have the free time to, but would like to figure this out asap as to not lose sleep or anymore hair than i already have over it.

thanks.

AxleIke

My frame is fine and my camber bolts do not sit at neutral at all. Mine is the requisite 17" too, as that second picture above is my truck with the prototype SS brace sitting bolted to it.

dlbrunner

Supposedly, the difference in measurements between those "stumps" can actually differ on an individual vehicle depending on if the truck was on a lift or on the ground... Indicating to me this is an extremely weak link in the suspension.

I often wonder what toyota engineers were thinking by NOT tieing those parts together.

Check the idler arm and steering links. they are flimsy.

PSmith

what year is your truck with the 17" span?

i can get the driver side camber and caster to align perfect but the bolts are a little off from neutral. i set all four the same for reference and as it sits with all four in the neutral position i am 2º negative on the driver side and 9º negative on the passenger.

even with the passenger side cams adjusted to full positive camber i am STILL at negative 4º on the passenger side.

PSmith

the steering components are completely stripped off the truck, but they have no effect on camber... only toe.

i am measuring the camber at zero toe, both tires and spindles in the straight ahead position.