What Aisin Clutch? '89 4wd 22r Pickup
02-11-2015, 04:36 AM
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What Aisin Clutch? '89 4wd 22r Pickup
I'm trying to find what Aisin clutch kit I need for my truck. PartsGeek only has it for a 2wd 22r and a 4wd 3.0L. Ebay says the CKT-019 but Amazon is telling me CKT-022.
Just need the correct Aisin part number!
Just need the correct Aisin part number!
02-11-2015, 06:02 AM
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Look into the ckt016. It looks like the ckt022 is the 8-7/8 clutch for the 2wd like you said. The weird thing is Rock Auto does not list any other aisin clutch kits for your model. I believe you need the 9-1/4" version, likely the ckt016 but I couldn't find specs on it because I'm on my phone and very tech-handicapped. Good luck!
02-11-2015, 06:27 AM
#3
You might want to check out the heavy duty clutch kit that Marlin Crawler has listed on their site. I haven't used it and I haven't read anything bad about it.
If you all them you might have trouble getting through. I think they're just refusing to answer the phone and prefer to do business through the net. They've been around a while and seem to have a pretty good reputation.
If you all them you might have trouble getting through. I think they're just refusing to answer the phone and prefer to do business through the net. They've been around a while and seem to have a pretty good reputation.
Last edited by Odin; 02-11-2015 at 06:29 AM.
02-11-2015, 07:44 AM
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I'll look into the CKT-016, Thank you
I had thought about the Marlin clutch but for my needs the OEM Aisin will suit me just fine.
LC Engineering has their clutch listed as 8-7/8 and also says it fits 2wd and 4wd??....for my truck, '89 4wd 22r
Can anyone confirm the Aisin 2wd clutch is the same as the 4wd?
I had thought about the Marlin clutch but for my needs the OEM Aisin will suit me just fine.
LC Engineering has their clutch listed as 8-7/8 and also says it fits 2wd and 4wd??....for my truck, '89 4wd 22r
Can anyone confirm the Aisin 2wd clutch is the same as the 4wd?
Last edited by 2themax; 02-11-2015 at 07:53 AM.
02-11-2015, 02:10 PM
#6
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According to Aisin you need the 022, http://aisinaftermarket.com/English/Catalog.php $122 at Rock Auto.
02-11-2015, 09:46 PM
#7
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According to Aisin you need the 022, http://aisinaftermarket.com/English/Catalog.php $122 at Rock Auto.
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02-12-2015, 02:09 AM
#8
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I stand corrected. I missed he 4WD part. It takes the 9 1/4 which is also the turbo clutch in earlier trucks. I just put the turbo model in my '87 4WD non-turbo. From what I read they are all interchangeable in 22r's. Head over here http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?board=37.0 and ask questions. These guys know their clutches, etc and there are even some Marlin staffers answering questions.
Last edited by 87yo_ta; 02-12-2015 at 02:39 AM.
02-12-2015, 11:09 AM
#10
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Hey 2themax,
Hey this is a pretty cool thread, thank you for posting up about this. I saw this link through your post on our forum and thought I'd take a look over here
"'89 4wd 22r Pickup"
Guys, there is no difference at all this side of 1981 in required clutch parts between a 2WD or 4WD, regardless if it is a 4-speed or 5-speed in either case.
Differences worth noting:
1) 1979 & 1980 4-speed models inherited non-reduction direct-bendix-drive starters with external solenoids from the Land Cruiser world which are not compatible with 1986-1987 22R-TE or 11/1992-1995 22R-E flywheels.
2) 1979 & 1980 use adjustable clutches that do not maintain a constant preload on the release bearing, a design also inherited from the L/C world. So overtime one would have to adjust a bolt at the clutch fork to maintain proper clutch operation as the clutch wore thin.
3) 1981-1988 22R/22R-E use a two piece release bearing design incorporating a bearing and a collar. This design uses two separate and removable clips that hold the collar to the fork, rather than a built-in release bearing assembly one-piece clip as used in all other applications. You can try to install a 1989-95 fork onto a 1981-88 two-piece release bearing equipped transmission, but this can sometimes be a real pain in the butt job because it requires the proper simultaneous alignment of three different spring clips as the late model forks use a slide-fit pivot spring compared to the early model fork's snap-fit pivot spring, the earlier type being able to install over the fork pivot at virtually any angle with little effort.
4) 1979-10/1992 20R/22R/22R-E use 8-7/8" flywheel/pressure plate/disc instead of 9-5/16" 22R-TE/November-of-1992-1995-22R-E/3VZ-E components.
5) All R-series transmission applications (Turbo and 6cyl) use a larger diameter fork pivot and matching fork.
Outside of the 5 points listed above, everything as far as compatibility between 2WD/4WD, 4-speed/5-speed is the same: Same pilot bearing dimensions, same release bearing dimensions, same clutch fork dimensions, same fork pivot dimensions, same flywheel & pressure plate bolt patterns, and same clutch disc hub spline count (21).
As for 2WD vs 4WD, the only difference is going to be the bellhousing. Primarily speaking for the post 1983 world, 2WD bellhousings, both G- and W-series, have thinner webbing and more narrow flange faces than 4WD, and 2WD models use block braces inherited from the 1981-83 L-series design. These block braces use clearance fit threaded holes at the bellhousing, whereas 4WD bellhousings have three larger through-holes and only one clearance-fit threaded hole, making for a stronger bellhousing-to-engine-block cast iron threaded connection for the 4WD world.
Yes, they are different. 2WD clutches are weaker, lower rated, and most will only have urethane plucks (and no springs at all). Manufactures realize that the typical torque loading requirements are lower for 2WD trucks and design cheaper, weaker kits specifically for the 2WD market. Urethane plucks are uncool: They have a limited amount of heat cycling which will result in fatigue and eventual complete degradation over time. (It's common to find a large pile of urethane dust and crumbs resting inside the bellhousing, remnants from cheap clutch kits.) Urethane plucks on a clutch disc are superior in absorbing shock loads which grandmothers who need to make their daily trips to the Supermarket at 3pm to pick up cat food will certainly appreciate.
This is incorrect. Please see our table listed at https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch. All 1989 4cyl trucks used a 8-7/8" clutch regardless if it's a 4Runner, or Pickup, 2WD or 4WD, 4-speed or 5-speed, carbureted or fuel injected.
Thank you for the shout out Odin During Dec and Jan we were short staffed due to Lee breaking both his tibia and fibula in his right leg, leaving only CJ to handle all the holiday traffic. We hired a new salesperson late Jan and since then have been rock'n the phones non-stop all day long. Sorry for any misconceptions that we might prefer to do business one way or the other: We simply had only one guy holding down the fort for 7 or 8 weeks! >_< We love any type of business that comes our way -- More people to go wheel'n with and enjoy at the camp fire!
Fixed it for ya
Why would this be so? Ever since Marlin decoded Toyota's transmission serial numbering it is extremely easy to tell what transmission is in any truck. All that is needed is an overview picture of the transmission and the serial number and we can tell you not only the model but also from which year and even from which month it was manufactured.
I would like to share here what I posted (reply #3) in regards to 2themax on our forum regarding the history with Marlin and clutch kits:
Despite being made in Japan, we do not like Aisin kits because their standard discs use urethane plucks (degrade and crack overtime) and single springs instead of Heavy Duty dual springs all around, and their supposedly "heavy duty" discs use plastic spring keepers that reduce their durability, precisely what you wouldn't want to see in a heavy duty application.
Instead, Marlin, in the late 1980s, based on a decade of off-road clutch experience, put together a hybrid kit - combining parts from different manufactures - and this is what put his setup above the rest. It's difficult for the younger generation like myself to fully understand this, but Marlin says back then he would carry 2 clutch discs with all his spare parts on every trail run he did and in his own words he would "replace blown clutch discs all the time". They would literally drop the transmission and swap out cooked discs right in the middle of the trail.
Fast forward to the mid 1990s and his clutches were so good that he contacted manufactures to build parts specific to this new sport he called Rock Crawling, and the rest is history! Our kits are not just some over-the-shelf pre-boxed kit that you see other places selling. Investigate for yourself 1) how long they have been selling and off-roading those kits, and 2) are those kits custom designed for them based on testing and replacing clutch components out on the trail?
Our kits are truly designed to cope with the harshness and abuse of off-roading without killing your leg during those long days on the trail. Each kit we have uses Marlin-specific heavy duty Aisin pressure plates with Marlin-specific heavy duty Seco discs.
Regards,
BigMike
Hey this is a pretty cool thread, thank you for posting up about this. I saw this link through your post on our forum and thought I'd take a look over here
"'89 4wd 22r Pickup"
Differences worth noting:
1) 1979 & 1980 4-speed models inherited non-reduction direct-bendix-drive starters with external solenoids from the Land Cruiser world which are not compatible with 1986-1987 22R-TE or 11/1992-1995 22R-E flywheels.
2) 1979 & 1980 use adjustable clutches that do not maintain a constant preload on the release bearing, a design also inherited from the L/C world. So overtime one would have to adjust a bolt at the clutch fork to maintain proper clutch operation as the clutch wore thin.
3) 1981-1988 22R/22R-E use a two piece release bearing design incorporating a bearing and a collar. This design uses two separate and removable clips that hold the collar to the fork, rather than a built-in release bearing assembly one-piece clip as used in all other applications. You can try to install a 1989-95 fork onto a 1981-88 two-piece release bearing equipped transmission, but this can sometimes be a real pain in the butt job because it requires the proper simultaneous alignment of three different spring clips as the late model forks use a slide-fit pivot spring compared to the early model fork's snap-fit pivot spring, the earlier type being able to install over the fork pivot at virtually any angle with little effort.
4) 1979-10/1992 20R/22R/22R-E use 8-7/8" flywheel/pressure plate/disc instead of 9-5/16" 22R-TE/November-of-1992-1995-22R-E/3VZ-E components.
5) All R-series transmission applications (Turbo and 6cyl) use a larger diameter fork pivot and matching fork.
Outside of the 5 points listed above, everything as far as compatibility between 2WD/4WD, 4-speed/5-speed is the same: Same pilot bearing dimensions, same release bearing dimensions, same clutch fork dimensions, same fork pivot dimensions, same flywheel & pressure plate bolt patterns, and same clutch disc hub spline count (21).
As for 2WD vs 4WD, the only difference is going to be the bellhousing. Primarily speaking for the post 1983 world, 2WD bellhousings, both G- and W-series, have thinner webbing and more narrow flange faces than 4WD, and 2WD models use block braces inherited from the 1981-83 L-series design. These block braces use clearance fit threaded holes at the bellhousing, whereas 4WD bellhousings have three larger through-holes and only one clearance-fit threaded hole, making for a stronger bellhousing-to-engine-block cast iron threaded connection for the 4WD world.
Yes, they are different. 2WD clutches are weaker, lower rated, and most will only have urethane plucks (and no springs at all). Manufactures realize that the typical torque loading requirements are lower for 2WD trucks and design cheaper, weaker kits specifically for the 2WD market. Urethane plucks are uncool: They have a limited amount of heat cycling which will result in fatigue and eventual complete degradation over time. (It's common to find a large pile of urethane dust and crumbs resting inside the bellhousing, remnants from cheap clutch kits.) Urethane plucks on a clutch disc are superior in absorbing shock loads which grandmothers who need to make their daily trips to the Supermarket at 3pm to pick up cat food will certainly appreciate.
This is incorrect. Please see our table listed at https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch. All 1989 4cyl trucks used a 8-7/8" clutch regardless if it's a 4Runner, or Pickup, 2WD or 4WD, 4-speed or 5-speed, carbureted or fuel injected.
During Dec and Jan we were short staffed due to Lee breaking both his tibia and fibula in his right leg, leaving only CJ to handle all the holiday traffic. We hired a new salesperson late Jan and since then have been rock'n the phones non-stop all day long. Sorry for any misconceptions that we might prefer to do business one way or the other: We simply had only one guy holding down the fort for 7 or 8 weeks! >_< We love any type of business that comes our way -- More people to go wheel'n with and enjoy at the camp fire!I would like to share here what I posted (reply #3) in regards to 2themax on our forum regarding the history with Marlin and clutch kits:
Originally Posted by BigMike
Despite being made in Japan, we do not like Aisin kits because their standard discs use urethane plucks (degrade and crack overtime) and single springs instead of Heavy Duty dual springs all around, and their supposedly "heavy duty" discs use plastic spring keepers that reduce their durability, precisely what you wouldn't want to see in a heavy duty application.
Instead, Marlin, in the late 1980s, based on a decade of off-road clutch experience, put together a hybrid kit - combining parts from different manufactures - and this is what put his setup above the rest. It's difficult for the younger generation like myself to fully understand this, but Marlin says back then he would carry 2 clutch discs with all his spare parts on every trail run he did and in his own words he would "replace blown clutch discs all the time". They would literally drop the transmission and swap out cooked discs right in the middle of the trail.
Fast forward to the mid 1990s and his clutches were so good that he contacted manufactures to build parts specific to this new sport he called Rock Crawling, and the rest is history! Our kits are not just some over-the-shelf pre-boxed kit that you see other places selling. Investigate for yourself 1) how long they have been selling and off-roading those kits, and 2) are those kits custom designed for them based on testing and replacing clutch components out on the trail?
Our kits are truly designed to cope with the harshness and abuse of off-roading without killing your leg during those long days on the trail. Each kit we have uses Marlin-specific heavy duty Aisin pressure plates with Marlin-specific heavy duty Seco discs.
BigMike
Last edited by BigMike; 02-12-2015 at 01:12 PM.
02-12-2015, 01:23 PM
#11
Registered User
Wow! I told you the Marlin guys knew their clutches! Awesome information and thanks BigMike for taking the time to post here. And yes, I was wrong again about the 9 1/4 being the standard clutch for the later 22r's. I'll TRY to keep my mouth shut next time. :-(
Last edited by 87yo_ta; 02-12-2015 at 02:36 PM.
02-12-2015, 02:22 PM
#12
I think I'm going to use the Marlin HD SECO clutch kit and throw in an LCE short shifter at the same time on my 2WD. I've had to redo a lot of clutch jobs because service writers kept getting cheap aftermarket clutch kits.
02-16-2015, 07:49 AM
#13
Registered User
Hey no way man, please don't feel this way! We all had to figure it out at some point, I just happen to know about these sort of things because I'm quite involved I think if you ever went wheel'n with all of us, at the campfire you'd see we are all no different, Marlin included, we just are very passionate and spend waaaaaaaay too much time tinkering around with our trucks!
Too bad we haven't designed a 2WD kit of our new one piece short throw design yet. Be sure to carefully degrease the threads and use loctite on the small LCE parts, as their kit is a copy of Roger Brown's original short throw design which uses small parts that have the potential to fall out and seriously damage your transmission, so much so that they include a large red warning message in their instructions about this. Take a look at reply #83 here where I covered this in comparison to our 4WD Short Throw kit in detail.
Regards,
BigMike
I think if you ever went wheel'n with all of us, at the campfire you'd see we are all no different, Marlin included, we just are very passionate and spend waaaaaaaay too much time tinkering around with our trucks!Too bad we haven't designed a 2WD kit of our new one piece short throw design yet. Be sure to carefully degrease the threads and use loctite on the small LCE parts, as their kit is a copy of Roger Brown's original short throw design which uses small parts that have the potential to fall out and seriously damage your transmission, so much so that they include a large red warning message in their instructions about this. Take a look at reply #83 here where I covered this in comparison to our 4WD Short Throw kit in detail.
Regards,
BigMike
02-16-2015, 08:12 AM
#14
Too bad we haven't designed a 2WD kit of our new one piece short throw design yet. Be sure to carefully degrease the threads and use loctite on the small LCE parts, as their kit is a copy of Roger Brown's original short throw design which uses small parts that have the potential to fall out and seriously damage your transmission, so much so that they include a large red warning message in their instructions about this. Take a look at reply #83 here where I covered this in comparison to our 4WD Short Throw kit in detail.
Regards,
BigMike
Regards,
BigMike
02-16-2015, 11:24 AM
#15
02-16-2015, 12:00 PM
#16
Registered User
Oh man the pressure is awn!! 
We are currently working on both a 4WD W56-C/D/E kit and a W59 T100/Tacoma/4Runner kit, the later I believe being compatible with 2WD or 4WD. A 1985-95 2WD W55/W56 kit won't be for a while yet but we know there is a market for it! I'll try to remember to update this thread with any news on the horizon
Regards,
BigMike
EDIT: Sorry that would be a thread hi-jack for sure
We will definitely post about any new short throw kits in our YT Vendor forum, https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f225/
We are currently working on both a 4WD W56-C/D/E kit and a W59 T100/Tacoma/4Runner kit, the later I believe being compatible with 2WD or 4WD. A 1985-95 2WD W55/W56 kit won't be for a while yet but we know there is a market for it! I'll try to remember to update this thread with any news on the horizon
Regards,
BigMike
EDIT: Sorry that would be a thread hi-jack for sure
We will definitely post about any new short throw kits in our YT Vendor forum, https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f225/
Last edited by BigMike; 02-16-2015 at 12:24 PM.
02-16-2015, 01:28 PM
#18
Registered User
I just installed the Marlin seat and socket as well. I never realized how crappy mine shifted! They are great. I'll have to say everything I bought has been top quality and shipped very fast. Great free advice too.
02-16-2015, 07:06 PM
#19
Registered User
Should be very soon, hopefully before Thursday. We are anticipating another delivery any day and probably could be taking & holding orders, but it's better to wait until we physically have inventory before trying to sell it
Thanks for the kind words guys, it makes what we do worth doing!
As for 2WD kits, something we might try is what we are currently doing with our ToyBox (dual case setup for FJ40/45/55 Land Cruisers) and that is taking a list of potential sales to get back into or in this case begin production. Currently it's just a Land Cruiser Excel file CruzrDave is managing but I'm supposed to be making an online request-type webform, but, yeah, I haven't even started on that If we do start this for sure we'll be posting about it.
Regards,
BigMike
As for 2WD kits, something we might try is what we are currently doing with our ToyBox (dual case setup for FJ40/45/55 Land Cruisers) and that is taking a list of potential sales to get back into or in this case begin production. Currently it's just a Land Cruiser Excel file CruzrDave is managing but I'm supposed to be making an online request-type webform, but, yeah, I haven't even started on that
If we do start this for sure we'll be posting about it.Regards,
BigMike
Last edited by BigMike; 02-16-2015 at 07:09 PM.
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