dylansmith17

Hi all,

This question pertains to a basically all stock 1995 V6 3.0 4x4 extracab. I bought the truck a year ago with 91K actual miles, one PO, and to my knowledge the timing belt has never been replaced. It's time. I am reasonably handy and would love to do it myself (fully plan on learning a lot from this truck and eventually doing everything myself), but the reality is that I lack the space and resources to undertake something like this at this time and am up to my neck in three other motorcycle projects that demand most of my attention. Truck is now at 97K miles and this needs to get done. Unfortunately the reality is that I will be paying a mechanic to do it.

My question is whether I should have the idler pulleys, tensioner (I believe this year has a separate tensioner, they are not in the pulleys), and front end seals (e.g. crank/camshaft seals) replaced while the timing cover is off. The other drive belts are all very new and shouldn't need replacing. I have read a lot of conflicting reports, it seems like in general a lot of people JUST do the belt, water pump, and thermostat. Other write-ups I've read say things like "strongly consider replacing pulleys/tensioners/seals".

When I called some shops, interestingly it was a Toyota dealer that gave me the lowest estimate and said that while they always check the pulleys and seals, they "usually look good" and don't replace them unless there is an absolutely clear reason to. Another shop seemed to say that I would be crazy not to replace everything I could with the truck being "that old".

What I would love is some advice from guys who have have done this job or had it done, maybe several times, with any insight as to whether or not it would be worth it to skimp on the other above-mentioned things (at a minimum I will do belt, water pump, thermo). A lot of the write-ups I've read on this and other sites who DO end up replacing basically everything they can have close to or above 200K miles on the motor. Again, this truck only has 97K on it. If I was at 160-170K and this was round two for the timing belt, I would totally do everything, but I can't seem to figure out the expected life of these other parts/seals.

To put it in context, dealer quoted me at $975 to do the belt/pump/thermo, while a different shop quoted me at almost $1500 for the whole everything-above replaced. Unfortunately I live in about the most expensive place to do or own anything (SF bay area CA). So, while I am committed to spending money on the best parts and service for this truck, it's not exactly a negligible difference in cost. I am fully aware that it would be better for my wallet and peace of mind to just do it myself and know that someone else didn't ˟˟˟˟ it up or rip me off, but like I said I just can't make it happen right now.

I would really appreciate your advice. Thanks.

hidesert

I wouldn't mess with the front seal unless there's clear evidence of a bad oil leak. Replacing a seal on a grooved crank can cause a leak (I know from experience).

I would consider replacing the top idler pulley/water inlet. Mine was very rough at 150,000 miles.

Best of luck.

scope103

First, Toyota's recommended maintenance interval for a timing belt is 96,000 miles. http://web.archive.org/web/201210210.../1maintena.pdf So hey, you've got a little more time.

But seriously, years count too. So you should just replace the belt.

For the pulleys, I would recommend just feeling them. They should roll silky smooth; if you can feel anything, you should replace them.

On the other hand, once you have the timing belt off, you've done 98% of the work. The two pulleys run about $40-$60 each, so feel free to make a money decision.

And I wouldn't mess with the seals unless you see some sign of weeping.

Note, by the way, all of these "tests" require that you get the timing belt off first. I know I like to have all the parts at hand before I start, but on an older vehicle that's just not likely.

dylansmith17

scope103, I've always heard that Toyota recommends the timing be replaced at 60,000 miles. But that's about 96,000 km, maybe thats what you're thinking?

At any rate, thanks for the replies.

Charchee

Nosir. Scope is right as to when they say to do it. I do mine whenever they break. Seriously though, anybody ever have one break? I'm getting distracted, sorry.

I have changed timing belts on these engines. I did it on my 01 that I was stupid and sold. She was worth it. Here's what you need to do:

Most dealerships keep every part that might need to be addressed during a timing belt replacement. They do this because often, one of the components other than the belt needs replaced. That being said, most dealership parts departments will allow full return credit on parts that are part of their normal inventory (not special order stuff). Plan on doing the job in one whole day if you have never done one before. You may even need part of another day to complete so schedule some time. Go and get all of the parts that you might need so long as you can return them without penalty and get to wrenching.

Do make sure you get a water pump, and any belts or hoses that look like you might need to change them. If you are running green antifreeze, a water pump replacement is the best time to change back over to red. You can make that call. The job is not easy but it is easier than the 3VZE engines were. I can't find the video that I was looking for but I think this is the guy that did it. His videos are great for following along with. .

No need to plan on the engine seals. It's not that bad of a job if you have the time and aren't afraid to get your hands dirty. That $1500 is ridiculous. My father in law sold Toyotas for years and his buddy was a shop mechanic. I bought my parts through him and he did one of mine for me for $100 labor and about $150 parts including timing belt, drive belts, radiator hoses and a water pump. They have a big mark up on their parts. Another trick is to price them from one of the Toyota dealership that advertises and sells online. Their pricing is way lower than local dealerships but if you show up with a quote form another dealership, your dealer will almost always match the price. Sometimes the price difference is 40% or more.

Long story short, you have plenty of time. Do some more looking into it and make you a plan for the replacement. I have 122K miles on one of mine, 142K on the other one and a spare engine in my shop with 150K miles on it's belt. I think Toyota really underestimated the life of their timing belts.

scope103

Oops! The link I provided makes it clear that the 96,000 -- is kilometers. (Darn Japanese version of manuals ....) 60k miles.

That's why I provide the links; you can read them yourself.

dylansmith17

Ok, thanks everybody. Just to clear some things up: my truck has the 3.0 3VZE in it, red coolant, 96k miles. I am 99% positive the recommended interval for timing belt replacement on these engines is 60k MILES, that's what the link scope sent me says, that's what my own FSE manual says,that's what I've always heard. That being said, I totally get that these belts can and will last longer than that. Clearly mine already has.

Also so to clarify, I will not be doing this job myself unfortunately. I will have to pay someone to do it. But it sounds like the consensus is skip the seals unless they already show signs of weeping/failure. Probably a good idea to have the pulleys replaced if they look or feel suspect at all. If they are something like $100 more I'll just have it done anyway.

Yes, I know $1500 is ridiculous. Most things are ridiculous where I live Still, I'll keep shopping.

Thanks all.

Charchee

And I was wrong on two fronts. Had a long day yesterday and didn't read well. I thought you were working on a 3.4L. The 3.0 is a little more tricky in my opinion and the tensioner and pulleys are more on an issue on the 3L as well. Who all is out there in the SF area that might know of a shop to use? I can't remember who it is I'm thinking about but one of our more experienced members lives there and he would know. I'll think of it shortly and ask for you.

toiyodah4WD

In Connecticut I was quoted about $1200 for timing belt/water pump. It's over $100 an hour labor plus parts, and the shop charges what the book cost is. Period. They could do it in 3 hours, but its what the computer lists the job as. Think about it. A lawyer could do 10 minutes of work --- but will still charge an hour rate. It's not about what it takes one person to do literal labor. You are paying for the shop, the rent, the healthcare, the salaries, the parts, the taxes, the tools, the insurance, the boat, the alimony, and on and on.

Charchee

That's exactly right. When I was a service manager at the Cat dealership, if I wanted to add a technician, I had to count him as a $155,000 expense per year. That's what all of that stuff costs even though he would be making less than $20 per hour.

Local small shops will have one of two types of mechanics. Those who were so good at what they did and had such aspirations that they went out on their own or those who couldn't get a job at a dealership. The way you tell is to visit with the owner and ask his experience. If he is the main mechanic and spent 5-15 years with a dealer, that's probably a good one. If he has never had his name on his shirt or did it for 30+ years before he went outside. Not my kind of place. The 30+ part of that is up for debate but in my experience, the best local shops are owned by guys who got out before they got the bad habits and don't care attitude that dealerships are plagued with. The best auto mechanic within 100 miles of me is 33 years old and his labor rate is $50 an hour. Low overhead is how he gets it done. I bet he'd do my timing belt for less than $200 plus parts and he'd share his parts discount with me.

astynx

I would go with the TOYOTA Dealer for $975. I paid about $900 for timing belt, waterpump, T-stat, tensioner and idler pulleys at Toyota dealer, parts and installation. At dealer you will get Toyota OEM parts, expensive but they last long time. All of this for price of 4 good tires.Actually this dealer had a service special of Toyota 6 cylinder timing belt replacement for about $175. Except MR2's. Guess what, a 92 Toyota 4runner is a toyota and the 3vze is a 6cylinder. i had to let them get me an hour's labor for waterpump install even which still would been less than a waterpump only remove and replace. this was about 51/2 years ago. I had 202,475 miles unknown when/ if belt had ever been replaced.
Sometimes people might not have time, tools etc to do this yourself.

jreb10

I would like to add my two cents worth, and it is a bit different than what has been said so far.

I think these trucks are way over-engineered, that is why they have functioned so long in third world areas. I have owned my truck since new, and have always been confused by the maintenance schedule. The timing belt change at 60,000 miles is for Schedule A, which is under conditions best described as rough service. If not under Schedule A conditions then Schedule B applies which shows no timing belt change interval at all!

My 1992 had its belt and water pump changed at 77K miles as part of the head gasket recall. I then drove it another 117K miles with no problems. I then had the belt and water pump changed again just because I was worried about it and too busy to deal with a problem. Just last week I personally changed the timing belt again at the 280K mile mark, or 85K miles after the last change.

The only reason I did the work was that I could hear the idlers just a bit. I looked up my records from the previous timing belt changes (done by Toyota) and learned that the idlers had NEVER been changed. They were the originals. That shows how long they can last. Both sounded dry but spun easily. Idler #2 was rocking just a little bit. I am glad I changed them.

The belt at 85K miles looked great. No sign of wear at all. The water pump is made by Aisin, and they are known to build high quality pumps. It is common practice with Aisin pumps in Subarus ( my other vehicle) to change the water pump every OTHER timing belt job. So I left it in there and have no worries.

If it was my truck I would evaluate the #2 idler which is easy to do by listening to it with a mechanics stethescope on the upper water outlet. If it sounds OK I would just drive it until I had the time and money to do the timing belt job. Remember it is not an interference engine so a broken belt won't cause valve damage.

Just my two cents based on my experience and observations. I know others will disagree.

Charchee

I'm down with all of that. That's kind of my theory on the whole thing but I, like you aren't scared to let one break, jump in there myself and fix what needs fixing. No all folks are so confident. If mine were to break, I go get my car hauler and winch, tow it home. Take the cover off and order parts. Next day I go to work in my company truck and check everything the next evening. If I need more parts, I order them and go on about my business. Point is, I don't depend on either one of my Toyotas. The only reason most of us give the over cautious instructions is because there are people who don't think this stuff is fun and need their vehicle every day. None of us want a novice to go through a miserable process in their opinion, and then find out a week later that their tensioner has failed and was probably bad when they changed the belt.

In short, you are right. We just want folks to know all the details so they can make their own decisions.

RJR

My theory is that, if you are running a truck this old and doing your own work, you need a backup plan; i.e., a "spare" vehicle of some kind so that ordinary life can go on even if your 25 year old truck fails and is down for two weeks. Given that, it's pretty easy to do what @Charchee describes, and work on things as you have time. On the other hand, if you're only going to have one vehicle for all of your needs, it probably should be less than 5 years old with a dealer warranty.

scope103

Another thing to consider is that most good mechanics know what RJR and Charchee (and most of the rest of us) know. These are old trucks, and they will be full of surprises.

Mine was owned by one other owner, who (justifiably) proudly told me that all work was done by the local dealership. Many years after I bought it, I was carefully tightening a cam bearing bolt, and felt it strip. I gingerly backed out the bolt to find a helicoil wrapped around it! (and when the bolt hole has a poorly install helicoil already there, you know you're screwed)

So if I was a mechanic trying to make a living, I would be very careful about what I took on with an older vehicle. You might think it only needs, say, a new fuel pressure regulator, but as soon as you lift the plenum other things start to break. So you'd have to quote your prices accordingly.

You and I (eventually) know the maintenance history of our trucks very well, and know that we have already broken most of the stuff we're going to break when moving the plenum!

dylansmith17

I totally get what most all of you are saying. I look forward to getting to the point where if something goes wrong, I can just get it home and work it out in my leisure.. That's where I'm at with my dirt bikes and motorcycles now and it's a great feeling. I would never pay someone to work on then because I know that for (ok, let's just say most) jobs, I will do just as good a job as the guy at the shop. I rest easier at night knowing that there shouldn't be too many surprises left in those bikes that I haven't already gone over.

This is is my first car (ever), and it's a lot bigger and more complicated than most motorcycles, and it feels like starting over with accumulating all the right tools, etc. Timing belt wasn't the job I wanted to start my truck maintenance with, and like some of you have pointed out, I don't have a backup, and I just need this thing to be reliable. Hence wanting to keep up with the recommended maintenance schedule.

Still, it sounds like in most of your experiences, these belts can last a long time, and this may not be as pressing as I had thought. It'll at least give me some time to shop around and find someone I really trust. Or, maybe if I'm REALLY lazy, I'll learn how to do it myself before I take it somewhere.