UCA against frame? - YotaTech Forums



86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

UCA against frame?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-07-2017, 09:48 AM   #1
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
86yota321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 240
UCA against frame?

Hey guys. So I'm trying to understand what's going on with my upper control arm on the passenger side. As it sits, the arm is actually resting on the top of the frame with no distance between. When looking at the driver side, there is a decent gap between the frame and arm. And btw, this is my first time digging into suspension components other than the shocks about 5 years ago.

This is the 3rd time in under a year that I have to replace my axle on that side because the inner boot keeps getting torn up. I noticed that the angles of the arms are a little more steep than the drivers side and so my first thought was maybe ball joints and because that tire angles out at the bottom more than the top. At the time of replacing those, I replaced the axle also. Got it back together and it still didn't change anything. 2 weeks go by and I have some time to check things out again and the damn boot is ripped already! 2weeks?! So I start doing more research find some stuff on adjusting the LCA. Passenger side was way different from driver so I was able to get them to match and it did help a little with how things were sitting but not enough. Soon I'll be replacing all of the tie rods, stabilizer, etc but for now I need to focus on this so I can keep an axle longer.

So now I'm trying to figure out why the arm is the way it is and I'm pretty sure the angle is whats causing me to go through axles. What would cause that arm to be contacting the frame even with the weight of the truck on it? I have never messed with any of these parts until now so I'm still trying to learn what affects what. (I just rebuilt a new motor for this thing last winter and that was a breeze compared to this, lol)

If it helps, I can snap some pics of both of the UCA and maybe the difference in the angles today after work.
86yota321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 01:29 PM   #2
Registered User
 
RAD4Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86yota321 View Post
...If it helps, I can snap some pics of both of the UCA and maybe the difference in the angles today after work.
Yes please; A picture paints a thousand words.
RAD4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 05:00 PM   #3
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
86yota321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 240
Driver side front
Driver side rear
Passenger front
Passenger rear

So you can see the passenger side resting right on the frame whereas the driver side has a good 1/4" + gap between. One thing I just noticed while taking these pics too....bump stop is gone from passenger side!? Never even noticed it before but in the driver side rear pic you can see the stop coming of the frame but if you look at the passenger rear pic...it's gone! Now what the hell to do? The gap between the arm and frame doesn't seem like much but I think with not having the stop on that side, its really tweaking things big time. I don't know what to do now. I'm sure this isn't just something you can buy. I have a welder at work so I potentially could put another one on IF I can track one down?

Last edited by 86yota321; 09-07-2017 at 05:14 PM.
86yota321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 06:47 AM   #4
Registered User
 
ewong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 1,722
You are gonna need to fab up a bump stop

Off the cuff, Downey (no longer around) used to sell a HD bracket for the UCA bottom out bumper.

Are these photos taken with the wheels in the air, or these pics with the wheels "on the ground at static ride height"?
If the wheels are on the ground at these pics are at static ride height, then you have a ton (well, 1.5") of lift cranked in via the torsion bars, and usually the truck rides like crap when that is done.
ewong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 07:40 AM   #5
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
86yota321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 240
These pics are with the wheels on the ground. I've never messed with the torsion bars in the 8 years that I've had this truck and have no idea how to even do it. Yesterday I searched a little to see how it's done.
How do you know that there is lift turned into those? (just to educate me)

What should it look like?
86yota321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 08:43 AM   #6
Registered User
 
RAD4Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86yota321 View Post
How do you know that there is lift turned into those? (just to educate me)
Does vehicle lean? Compare this measurement between two sides... (ignore text notes).
I have 13.75 inches with 15-inch rims.

Last edited by RAD4Runner; 09-08-2017 at 08:45 AM.
RAD4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 09:21 AM   #7
Registered User
 
ewong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 1,722
OEM wise - when looking at the FRONT of the truck, the lower A arms should be "close to flat" appearing as they stick out on each side.

Typically - you can stick a "finger" between the top of the upper control arm top out snubber and the A arm.

To get any lift, (but not in the North East where everything is rusted), all you do is "turn a bolt".

You can see the appeal - an 18yo kid can get "instant lift" in a few minutes of work in a parking lot! (tho it messes up the alignment and thus will chew up tires...)
ewong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 10:21 AM   #8
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
86yota321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 240
So I guess I'll start with the measurements and go from there. Might take a little bit to fab up the bracket and stuff but for the time being, if I'm understanding this correctly, if I adjust the torsion bars with less lift, this should help even out the arm more so that the angle isn't as severe and will get it off of the frame until I get the bracket made? Which, the bracket is really only there to stop the downward travel of the arm correct?

I just ran out and checked the driver side and the arm is resting directly on the stop. So it's sounding like the previous guy cranked the torsion bars all the way? I guess it would make sense because under the leaf springs in the back they put like 3" or 4" blocks in there.

Some of this has got to factor in with blowing through the axles that I am right? Or it's a starting point anyways.
86yota321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 11:16 AM   #9
Registered User
 
ewong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 1,722
The front axle boots should NOT be turning if you manual hubs and they are unlocked (and you have the transfer case in 2WD High)

yes - the UCA should NOT be resting on the top out snubbers

The Torsion bar adjusters are often "frozen" / rusted.
So you end up "cutting" the bolt (beware - its under significant tension and it will "shoot" the parts when cut!!!)
If I recall - there is a bolt, a "nut" and a half moon shaped wedge part - one set on each side.

3-4" block in the rear?
Do you want/need that much lift?
Note that the nose low stance also makes the alignment wonky / harder (lack of adjustment)
ewong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 12:06 PM   #10
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
86yota321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 240
I will double check for turning but I was thinking that between the steep angle of the cv shaft and the fact that my tire (looking at the front of the truck) is like / compared to I is the reason for the inner boot to keep tearing? Driver side has been fine for 2 years now and doesn't have the extreme angle that the passenger has.

Defiantly will be reading up on torsion bar adjustment.

Well, I've slacked on replacing the rear springs and each one has busted inner leafs so I've left it alone. I like the height all around but I'd rather do it better than what whoever did to it. like an actual body/suspension lift in the future. After getting the front end done now is probably going to give me that boost to replace them.
86yota321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 12:18 PM   #11
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
highonpottery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Citrus Hts., CA
Posts: 2,820
If the rear has blocks like you say, then likely the front has been adjusted with t-bar lift. Since you only have 32" tires, I would almost recommend you go back to stock height, for the best ride quality, when you start replacing parts - or at least closer to stock up front so the angles aren't so steep and keep taking out your CV boots. Things sag and fatigue over time, so likely it's contributed to the uneven front aside from the obvious missing bump stop. Very likely the control arm bushings are worn too along with all the other wearable components up front, I'd replace them and basically have a new truck suspension/steering.
highonpottery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 12:27 PM   #12
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
86yota321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 240
Aw crap, I need to change my sig, lol. I've since gone to 30 x 10.50 tires for like a year and half now.

This is the start of the front end rejuvenation. I may have to deal with a bit of a lower sitting front for a bit but it's better than having to keep replacing an axle. My main goal is to have the suspension/steering components replace before the snow starts here. It's my daily driver and finding time on a weekend to start AND complete anything on it gets tough some times.
86yota321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 12:30 AM   #13
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
wyoming9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods
Posts: 12,080
Red face

I might have the bump stop on my parts truck I need to double check!!

With the difference in height and the torsion bars cranked up this must handle very interesting
wyoming9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 06:34 AM   #14
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
86yota321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 240
Well I didn't have a chance to do anything this weekend but I did measure and I've got 15" from rim to wheel well. Looks like the bars are cranked all the way. This thing has always ran pretty hard and I though that was a little my fault when I put new shocks on years ago in the front. I went with Pro-comp Es9000. A little stiff but now I know what's really going on.
86yota321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 07:16 AM   #15
Registered User
 
RAD4Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,028
Yup, cranked way too far. IF the shocks you put are for stock height, then they would not work well on the lifted suspension. Need to adjust that torsion bar.

Like ewong says, IF your manual locking hubs are unlocked you should not be tearing up inner CV boots - unless you wheel a lot. I suggest checking IF your hubs are really free-wheeling = in 2H, all wheels on ground, both left and right front axles should be free to turn by hand.

Also, blocks in the rear do not make your ride any more comfortable. Most likely, those were placed to band-aid the sagging rear suspension - typical with trucks our generation. IF you want a better ride but do not have the budget for new springs or Old Man Emu upgrade, try the Zuk mod. Less than $100 on parts and I've driven my truck all over the place and am happy with my Zuk mod (https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post51992081).

Last edited by RAD4Runner; 09-11-2017 at 07:33 AM.
RAD4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 03:11 PM   #16
Fossilized
Staff
iTrader: (6)
 
dropzone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: PNW
Posts: 18,194
over cranked Torsion bars is exactly what I thought when I saw the thread title
dropzone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 08:30 PM   #17
Registered User
 
RAD4Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,028
BTW, O.P., do you really need all that lift? Why not restore to stock the way Toyota designed it? That would mean:
Wheel rim to wheel-well lip in front - approx 13.75"
Wheel rim to wheel-well lip in rear - approx 11.25"
RAD4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 11:43 PM   #18
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
wyoming9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods
Posts: 12,080
Red face

Lift is cool shows your a real off worlder
wyoming9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2017, 12:31 AM   #19
Registered User
 
Andy A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Pines, NC
Posts: 287
Not sure if it is just the way the picture is taken or not but something looks odd about the front control arm bushing on the passenger side. Looks really squished out for some reason.
Andy A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 07:03 AM   #20
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
86yota321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 240
Thanks for all of the info guys. I will hopefully be working on this this weekend along with replacing u-joints and the rear axle seal. Taking note of everything and will report back once I make my adjustments.
86yota321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:11 AM.


2017 InternetBrands, Inc.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: