Transmission Problem (...Overheating??)
09-17-2013, 07:27 PM
#41
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I brought it back today and I will say that they seem very polite and willing to help. They kept apologizing for the continuous problem, and said they want to do everything to fix it for me at no additional charge.
The owner of the shop asked for my permission to drive the truck to his home, which happens to be in Boca (where I go to school/where the A/T Oil Temp light came on last). He said he was going to bring his scanner with him and check the temp. when he got home to see if it was actually overheating, or if something else was tripping the light.
I addressed the fact that every time the temp. light has come on it was a sunny day, i.e. hot outside. I said that when I drove back from Orlando it was overcast and raining and that I thought those two circumstances helped keep the transmission cool (which I do believe is true). He said that weather or outside circumstances such as rain cannot effect the transmission; that it is either getting hot or its not; that "it doesn't know" if it has been idling for 2 hours or if I have been on the highway for 2 hours...
I also suggested that perhaps the cooling system was clogged or had some degree of restricted flow. He didn't think this was the case, but said if it is they would throw on an external cooler for me at no charge to fix the problem (I think they're as tired of me bringing it back as I am of going back).
He also said he will "check out" the hard shifting problem. It only does this when the engine is cold...not sure what it is, but he said he will look at it.
The owner of the shop asked for my permission to drive the truck to his home, which happens to be in Boca (where I go to school/where the A/T Oil Temp light came on last). He said he was going to bring his scanner with him and check the temp. when he got home to see if it was actually overheating, or if something else was tripping the light.
I addressed the fact that every time the temp. light has come on it was a sunny day, i.e. hot outside. I said that when I drove back from Orlando it was overcast and raining and that I thought those two circumstances helped keep the transmission cool (which I do believe is true). He said that weather or outside circumstances such as rain cannot effect the transmission; that it is either getting hot or its not; that "it doesn't know" if it has been idling for 2 hours or if I have been on the highway for 2 hours...
I also suggested that perhaps the cooling system was clogged or had some degree of restricted flow. He didn't think this was the case, but said if it is they would throw on an external cooler for me at no charge to fix the problem (I think they're as tired of me bringing it back as I am of going back).
He also said he will "check out" the hard shifting problem. It only does this when the engine is cold...not sure what it is, but he said he will look at it.
You can get your own external tranny temp sensor and install in no more than an hour for less than $100...
The only thing that makes sense to me is either some sort of tranny fluid pump failure or clogs in the coolant lines...
09-26-2013, 09:27 AM
#42
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So I FINALLY got my truck back AGAIN. The shop had it for about 3 days; they said they replaced the torque converter again, because (I guess) the previous replacement was faulty or defective. They said they "drove it around extensively" and it had no more problems, and no more temp. light.
I picked it up on a day that I had to go to class, and drove it straight up to Boca/45-55 min. drive, and it seemed perfect. No problems, no heat (even the shifter/floorboards were cool, compared to them previously being hot enough to make my legs sweat).
One interesting thing I noticed right away was that my truck used to make this loud "whooooooooooooooooooo" sound - sort of light a really loud vacuum cleaner - under acceleration. I always thought this to be normal, and figured it was the fan or something making the sound. Not sure if any of you are familiar with what I am talking about, but it did this since the day I bought the truck. Anyway, that sound is pretty much gone. It used to be present at ALL times, but now it hardly ever happens...only after I have been driving for awhile and accelerate from a stop or very slow speed. It seems like it is some extra work the engine does to cool itself down. I don't know...
The ONE thing that IS still bothering me a little is that the truck sometimes (very rare so far) seems like it doesn't know which gear to be in. I noticed it for the first time last night when I was cruising home from work. When driving at a steady 45 mph, the car keep having intermittent "rev jumps" where it seemed like the tranny was downshift then up-shifting really quickly...again as if it didn't know which gear to be in. Any ideas what could cause this?
I picked it up on a day that I had to go to class, and drove it straight up to Boca/45-55 min. drive, and it seemed perfect. No problems, no heat (even the shifter/floorboards were cool, compared to them previously being hot enough to make my legs sweat).
One interesting thing I noticed right away was that my truck used to make this loud "whooooooooooooooooooo" sound - sort of light a really loud vacuum cleaner - under acceleration. I always thought this to be normal, and figured it was the fan or something making the sound. Not sure if any of you are familiar with what I am talking about, but it did this since the day I bought the truck. Anyway, that sound is pretty much gone. It used to be present at ALL times, but now it hardly ever happens...only after I have been driving for awhile and accelerate from a stop or very slow speed. It seems like it is some extra work the engine does to cool itself down. I don't know...
The ONE thing that IS still bothering me a little is that the truck sometimes (very rare so far) seems like it doesn't know which gear to be in. I noticed it for the first time last night when I was cruising home from work. When driving at a steady 45 mph, the car keep having intermittent "rev jumps" where it seemed like the tranny was downshift then up-shifting really quickly...again as if it didn't know which gear to be in. Any ideas what could cause this?
09-26-2013, 11:59 AM
#43
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The wooo sound (assuming it sounds like an air noise and not a fan or belt) could be three things:
1) Your air intake system. It's a little loud on these trucks.
2) Your exhaust gas recirculation system.
3) Or a bad/failed vacuum line drawing in external air.
The gear confusion is not correct. But it'll likely be a sensor/ECM issue. These are the top suspects
- VSS, vehicle speed sensor (note that there are two of these)
- TPS, throttle position sensor
- Engine coolant temp sensor
- Power profiles switch issue (the PWR switch button at base of shifter)
- O/D switch issue (the O/D switch on shifter)
- the ECM itself (unlikely)
Around 45, is that from third to fourth/OD or are you going between 2nd and 3rd? If the former, it could be your tranny kickdown/throttle cable not being properly adjusted or a problem w/ the lockup solenoid or the torque converter itself.
Of course, it could also be an internal tranny gear and/or solenoid/electrical issue.
See your tranny's electrical info here: http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...34electron.pdf
1) Your air intake system. It's a little loud on these trucks.
2) Your exhaust gas recirculation system.
3) Or a bad/failed vacuum line drawing in external air.
The gear confusion is not correct. But it'll likely be a sensor/ECM issue. These are the top suspects
- VSS, vehicle speed sensor (note that there are two of these)
- TPS, throttle position sensor
- Engine coolant temp sensor
- Power profiles switch issue (the PWR switch button at base of shifter)
- O/D switch issue (the O/D switch on shifter)
- the ECM itself (unlikely)
Around 45, is that from third to fourth/OD or are you going between 2nd and 3rd? If the former, it could be your tranny kickdown/throttle cable not being properly adjusted or a problem w/ the lockup solenoid or the torque converter itself.
Of course, it could also be an internal tranny gear and/or solenoid/electrical issue.
See your tranny's electrical info here: http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...34electron.pdf
Last edited by RSR; 09-26-2013 at 12:04 PM.
09-26-2013, 07:13 PM
#44
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The gear confusion is not correct. But it'll likely be a sensor/ECM issue. These are the top suspects
- VSS, vehicle speed sensor (note that there are two of these)
- TPS, throttle position sensor
- Engine coolant temp sensor
- Power profiles switch issue (the PWR switch button at base of shifter)
- O/D switch issue (the O/D switch on shifter)
- the ECM itself (unlikely)
Around 45, is that from third to fourth/OD or are you going between 2nd and 3rd? If the former, it could be your tranny kickdown/throttle cable not being properly adjusted or a problem w/ the lockup solenoid or the torque converter itself.
Of course, it could also be an internal tranny gear and/or solenoid/electrical issue.
See your tranny's electrical info here: http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...34electron.pdf
- VSS, vehicle speed sensor (note that there are two of these)
- TPS, throttle position sensor
- Engine coolant temp sensor
- Power profiles switch issue (the PWR switch button at base of shifter)
- O/D switch issue (the O/D switch on shifter)
- the ECM itself (unlikely)
Around 45, is that from third to fourth/OD or are you going between 2nd and 3rd? If the former, it could be your tranny kickdown/throttle cable not being properly adjusted or a problem w/ the lockup solenoid or the torque converter itself.
Of course, it could also be an internal tranny gear and/or solenoid/electrical issue.
See your tranny's electrical info here: http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...34electron.pdf
09-26-2013, 08:29 PM
#45
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I had regular tranny overheating issues in mine on somewhat hilly (not mountainous) highways with cruise turned on or anytime I pulled an empty trailer. Stealership couldn't find anything wrong with it. I had a Hayden tranny cooler installed in 2005, and have not had the light come on again since. Great mod.
Sorry to hear about your torque converter. Everything wears out eventually.
Sorry to hear about your torque converter. Everything wears out eventually.
09-27-2013, 11:00 AM
#46
Registered User
wise guy, he has a hayden equivalent on it w/ the towing package and an oil cooler too.
Yes, if it's third and fourth, it's likely an issue w/ torque converter lockup. That process between when torque converter starts to lock up into od and actually locks up are when the tranny/torque converter produces it's most heat...
So I'd get it fixed/troubleshooted before that excess heats burns soomething up yet again and you have to pay for it again...
Yes, if it's third and fourth, it's likely an issue w/ torque converter lockup. That process between when torque converter starts to lock up into od and actually locks up are when the tranny/torque converter produces it's most heat...
So I'd get it fixed/troubleshooted before that excess heats burns soomething up yet again and you have to pay for it again...
09-27-2013, 11:28 AM
#47
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wise guy, he has a hayden equivalent on it w/ the towing package and an oil cooler too.
Yes, if it's third and fourth, it's likely an issue w/ torque converter lockup. That process between when torque converter starts to lock up into od and actually locks up are when the tranny/torque converter produces it's most heat...
So I'd get it fixed/troubleshooted before that excess heats burns soomething up yet again and you have to pay for it again...
Yes, if it's third and fourth, it's likely an issue w/ torque converter lockup. That process between when torque converter starts to lock up into od and actually locks up are when the tranny/torque converter produces it's most heat...
So I'd get it fixed/troubleshooted before that excess heats burns soomething up yet again and you have to pay for it again...
I too have the factory towing package with factory coolers. They weren't sufficient for my 4Runner (much like the factory rotors which overheat and warp- sometimes Toyota's factory included parts aren't up to snuff). In addition to the factory coolers, I added the tranny cooler. For $60 plus labor, it bought me tremendous piece of mind. In the 9 years since I had it installed, I've never had the tranny overheat.
09-27-2013, 06:50 PM
#48
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RSR,
I too have the factory towing package with factory coolers. They weren't sufficient for my 4Runner (much like the factory rotors which overheat and warp- sometimes Toyota's factory included parts aren't up to snuff). In addition to the factory coolers, I added the tranny cooler. For $60 plus labor, it bought me tremendous piece of mind. In the 9 years since I had it installed, I've never had the tranny overheat.
I too have the factory towing package with factory coolers. They weren't sufficient for my 4Runner (much like the factory rotors which overheat and warp- sometimes Toyota's factory included parts aren't up to snuff). In addition to the factory coolers, I added the tranny cooler. For $60 plus labor, it bought me tremendous piece of mind. In the 9 years since I had it installed, I've never had the tranny overheat.
09-30-2013, 06:18 PM
#49
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The "woooooooooooo" sound is IDENTICAL to the one a semi truck makes when it is accelerating from a stop.
10-01-2013, 09:08 AM
#51
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10-01-2013, 06:26 PM
#52
The fan clutch on these trucks is thermostatic.
Meaning that the clutch engages based on temperature. The fan clutch is disengaged most of the time when the engine is cool and even at normal operating temperature.
However, if the engines temperature rises above the clutches engagement temperature, the fan becomes fully engaged.
Thus pulls a higher volume of air though the vehicles radiator.
Fan clutch engagement is normal.
Most fan clutches stay engaged for a few seconds after the engine is started cold.
A fan clutch that stays engaged all the time could indicate an engine/radiator over temperature problem and or a problem with the fan clutch itself.
Meaning that the clutch engages based on temperature. The fan clutch is disengaged most of the time when the engine is cool and even at normal operating temperature.
However, if the engines temperature rises above the clutches engagement temperature, the fan becomes fully engaged.
Thus pulls a higher volume of air though the vehicles radiator.
Fan clutch engagement is normal.
Most fan clutches stay engaged for a few seconds after the engine is started cold.
A fan clutch that stays engaged all the time could indicate an engine/radiator over temperature problem and or a problem with the fan clutch itself.
10-07-2013, 07:24 AM
#53
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Is it normal that my transmission still won't shift into highest gear when it is cold? I researched this question before I had mine rebuilt, and everyone said yes it's normal because "it's a 20 year old transmission, just let it warm up a bit and you'll be fine." But I have been thinking that this should have stopped after the rebuild, right?
10-07-2013, 09:48 AM
#54
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Is it normal that my transmission still won't shift into highest gear when it is cold? I researched this question before I had mine rebuilt, and everyone said yes it's normal because "it's a 20 year old transmission, just let it warm up a bit and you'll be fine." But I have been thinking that this should have stopped after the rebuild, right?
10-07-2013, 05:16 PM
#55
Lots of Toyota transaxles like that, especially when talking about high gears. Letting the vehicle warm-up for at least 30 seconds before driving will usually remedy these issues.
Usually the Transmission will "Up-shift" fine when cold just usually at a later shift point.
Usually the Transmission will "Up-shift" fine when cold just usually at a later shift point.
10-07-2013, 06:49 PM
#56
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Lots of Toyota transaxles like that, especially when talking about high gears. Letting the vehicle warm-up for at least 30 seconds before driving will usually remedy these issues.
Usually the Transmission will "Up-shift" fine when cold just usually at a later shift point.
Usually the Transmission will "Up-shift" fine when cold just usually at a later shift point.
10-07-2013, 08:44 PM
#57
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Yep. Others covered it, but the lockup solenoid releases at ~158* F from a coolant temp reading from one of those sensors at the back of the engine I believe.
In trying to figure out the ideal external tranny cooler setup (bypassing radiator to for certain avoid pink milkshake, etc), many say to run as cool as possible, but from my research the lock up solenoid appears to want this temp to ensure that tranny fluid is warm and at appropriate viscosity to properly lubricate the torque converter... Rather than a fuel economy and whatever function that others presume. Sure it's more than you wanted to know, but I *think* that's why Toyota on stock setup ran from tranny to cooler to radiator rather than the opposite which tranny shops like to recommend. Or bypassing in entirety like shadetrees on here recommend. YMMV of course.
In trying to figure out the ideal external tranny cooler setup (bypassing radiator to for certain avoid pink milkshake, etc), many say to run as cool as possible, but from my research the lock up solenoid appears to want this temp to ensure that tranny fluid is warm and at appropriate viscosity to properly lubricate the torque converter... Rather than a fuel economy and whatever function that others presume. Sure it's more than you wanted to know, but I *think* that's why Toyota on stock setup ran from tranny to cooler to radiator rather than the opposite which tranny shops like to recommend. Or bypassing in entirety like shadetrees on here recommend. YMMV of course.
02-26-2014, 09:59 AM
#58
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Just getting my truck back from the transmission shop today, for what will have been the last visit to them...not because all my problems are now solved, but instead because they're finally telling me "we can't help you any further, try taking it to Toyota."
I brought it back because I was experiencing what I believe to be a torque converter problem again - the same experience that caused me to bring it back to them once previously and them changing out the torque converter for a new one, claiming they believed it was faulty (post #42). Specifically, when at a stop sign or stop light, when I let off the brake the truck will not "roll" forward, and then when I press the gas I will not move...it feels like there is a 3000-3500 stall converter on the truck. Once RPMs get up very high, it will seem to "catch" in gear, start moving, and then shift into 2nd right away and everything will be normal. This experience is 100% random and cannot be purposely replicated. It had been about 1.5 months since last experiencing it, and then it happened once over the weekend and on back-to-back occasions last Wednesday, and has not happened again since.
The disappointing thing is that this is the EXACT same thing I experienced when I brought the truck in originally for the rebuild. When I initially brought it to them - after the overheating - they checked it out and said, "we don't want to rip you off. We see no problems; just drive it and if something happens again bring it back." And on that same day I thought I had felt it "slipping" in 1st gear, but what really happened is the same thing I am experiencing now.
At that point is when they told me I needed a rebuild. To put it short, I had 2 problems with the transmission when I brought it to them:
1). Overheating
2). This "slipping"/"high stall" converter problem
After the rebuild, I have the truck back with 2 problems:
1). The "slipping"/"high stall" converter problem
2). The "it doesn't know if it wants to be in overdrive on the highway or not" problem
After the rebuild, if it wasn't seen in this thread, the transmission was still overheating. They solved that by adding another external tranny cooler. And I still have the converter problem, even after 2 replacements, and I have the O/D problem. So 1 problem solved via <$100 tranny cooler and NOT the $1600 rebuild, 1 problem still there/the same, and 1 new problem discovered.
Pretty pissed off that all this happened and I wasted my money. I know now that I would have been better off with a $90 fluid change and just paying them to add the external cooler. Sorry for the rant...just wanted to get it off my chest!
I brought it back because I was experiencing what I believe to be a torque converter problem again - the same experience that caused me to bring it back to them once previously and them changing out the torque converter for a new one, claiming they believed it was faulty (post #42). Specifically, when at a stop sign or stop light, when I let off the brake the truck will not "roll" forward, and then when I press the gas I will not move...it feels like there is a 3000-3500 stall converter on the truck. Once RPMs get up very high, it will seem to "catch" in gear, start moving, and then shift into 2nd right away and everything will be normal. This experience is 100% random and cannot be purposely replicated. It had been about 1.5 months since last experiencing it, and then it happened once over the weekend and on back-to-back occasions last Wednesday, and has not happened again since.
The disappointing thing is that this is the EXACT same thing I experienced when I brought the truck in originally for the rebuild. When I initially brought it to them - after the overheating - they checked it out and said, "we don't want to rip you off. We see no problems; just drive it and if something happens again bring it back." And on that same day I thought I had felt it "slipping" in 1st gear, but what really happened is the same thing I am experiencing now.
At that point is when they told me I needed a rebuild. To put it short, I had 2 problems with the transmission when I brought it to them:
1). Overheating
2). This "slipping"/"high stall" converter problem
After the rebuild, I have the truck back with 2 problems:
1). The "slipping"/"high stall" converter problem
2). The "it doesn't know if it wants to be in overdrive on the highway or not" problem
After the rebuild, if it wasn't seen in this thread, the transmission was still overheating. They solved that by adding another external tranny cooler. And I still have the converter problem, even after 2 replacements, and I have the O/D problem. So 1 problem solved via <$100 tranny cooler and NOT the $1600 rebuild, 1 problem still there/the same, and 1 new problem discovered.
Pretty pissed off that all this happened and I wasted my money. I know now that I would have been better off with a $90 fluid change and just paying them to add the external cooler. Sorry for the rant...just wanted to get it off my chest!
Last edited by KtrainHurricane; 02-26-2014 at 10:05 AM.
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