dont b sorry that video is awesome while a waste of a perfectly good truck makes those who deny the toughness of toyotas think again

 

oh, well thanks! I though it sounded purdy good too

 

That last model (08) Grand Prix and actually all grand prix's except early to mid sixty's (especially the super dutys) were/are crap. (my opinion of course). When GM gives pontiac the ax I will blame it and the grand am for the failure. I wish the name wasn't so tainted and synonymous with poor quality now. I would want to buy the brand name and build a real american vehicle again. If I had money to invest anyway.

I agree al, it does all come down to the money. But in turn the money makes the lazyiness and the false entitlement as they continue to print more with out assets or gold or whatever to back it. I should prob explain this theory better but we all know or deny this dilemma anyway. Some people can do both at the same time.

 

 

I have only owned japanese cars so that is all I can comment on first hand. On my runner, it recieved 0 maintaince for most of its like (this is fact) and after no maintance the engine started burning oil and I eventually ended up rebuilding it (didn't need it but i had money burning in my pocket). Besides that the truck is pretty much all original, the front diff still has the original fluid in it (probably not a good thing) and I just recently changed the auto trans fluid (for the first time ever lol) in 19 years (was last year). The trans is in GREAT shape and so is the rest of the drivetrain. It is extremely reliable and I will keep it forever if i can. I also just bought an 89 civic winter beater which has been amazing so far with no repairs needed except for some minor rust hole repair and a new muffler because the previous one rusted off. The motor runs amazing and is very strong. Both off these vehicles are 20 years old are still in great shape which speaks on the engineering that went into them.

As for domestics I have an 03 Focus in the family and it has been amazing so far with no problems as of yet. Besides flushing the rad fluid and changing the trans fluid it has needed nothing. I think some american cars are good, you just have to know which ones.

 

My 86 has been good so far, I've only had it a few months. One of the POs didnt fill up the gas tank before storing it for years, so it rusted and I had to replace it. It has a few leaks here and there, and I need to replace the ball joints, when I turn the steering wheel all the way it sounds like a zombie dolphin dying. I work for Lordco, and they have a 2000 Dodge Dakota with 250,000 miles on it, all teenager driven too, doesnt get the fluids changed except for the oil, all that broke is the heater core twice. We got a 2003 Ford F-250 thats a piece, its got tons of issues and only 130,000 on it. Every thing from switches inside to electronics to tranny failure.

Also, I went wheeling last night, had water very deep, going in the doors, just everywhere, some got in somewhere it should not have and it ran weird for a day, but now its a champ again! That night a 2007 Chevy broke a driveshaft trying to follow me

 

It's a simple statistical fact.

Most cars hit the junk around 270,000-300,000km, most Toyota's hit the junk around 1,000,000km

 

Keep in mind age. I had a 94 Explorer and a 94 4runner at the same time. Both had nearly the same mileage. Both were very well maintained with all options working. I did the work on them and got very familiar with the differences.

There were things the Ford did a lot better and things the Toyota did a lot better. Here are examples, the Ford's powertrain was light years ahead. The 4.0 mated to that 4 speed was excellent. As a result it had a much higher tow rating and handled hauling loads much better while getting similar fuel economy. I have towed across the country with the 4runner and across CA with the Explorer as well as local trips so know their abilities well. The 4runners engine choices are downright retarded for a vehicle of its mass. The 4runner has a very low tow rating (thousands of lb less) and is prone to transmission overheating. The Explorer's transmission would take everything you threw at it.

Now the 4runner wins on chassis and that's what matters off road. The Explorer has a very flimsy c channel frame in comparison. As a result, ride quality is degraded and the body tends to develop more rattles. If you use the Explorer off road it just won't hold up, way too much frame flex. We can build and swap engines in our garages but chassis engineering is beyond most of our capabilities.

Suspension, well the Explorer wins there too from a utility standpoint although its front wheel bearings were tiny. Load it with 1000 lb, it sits level and can handle the weight over bad roads at high speeds. The 4runner sagged from the get go, you have to upgrade the springs just to sit level again. That doesn't happen in the old Explorer. But, suspension is easy to upgrade so it is easy to enhance the 4runner and the upside to the soft suspension is better trail flex and capability. Also, the 4runner had a better on road ride.

Brakes, that went to the 4runner. It's 4 piston calipers, vented disks, and huge front wheel bearings make for a much better more robust set up.

Steering, goes to the Ford. Both vehicles ended up needing steering gears but the 4runner had to live with bigger tires and it's lasted longer. The I-beam steering setup is much stronger than the 4runner's IFS steering. There are no fragile idler arms. Still, one can brace an idler arm easily.

I'm an off road enthusiast so the chassis won out. If I had tried to beat the Explorer like the 4runner it would have turned into a POS rattle trap in short order. You could so feel the body being twisted when the frame flexed especially going back and forth between vehicles. My friends own the Explorer now and it still runs great. It leaks less than my 4runner and the paint has held up. They use it as a family hauler and so it will probably last a long time, I used it as truck.

I kept the 4runner and love to wheel it and still tow with it. It still looks great and has a higher resale value than the Explorer too. It's had its share of maintenance issues but I think it holds up well for its age. Nothing else like it in 1994 can be compared when you take into account off road use. At this age, owner maintenance is a huge factor in vehicle condition so keep that in mind.

That's about as objective as I can be.

Frank

 

New to the forum here, but I figured this was the exact topic to start out with here. I've owned many many Jeeps over the years, worked at a Jeep dealer, and have also had my share of Yota's. Well, when I first started working at the dealer I owned a 1986 toyota 4x4 p/u single cab. That truck became a daily driver, a beater, and my 4 wheeler. I drove that thing on 33's all year round, every day, rolled her twice, offroaded by weekly. Finally, stupidly sold her for $400 bucks with just over 250k on the clock. In comes the Jeep J10(which I still own). The J10 was rolled 6 times at one sitting, the motor siezed, then unsiezed itself, driven it home from the pits with 2 broken front axle tubes, and she just surpassed 400k. I took her down as she only gets 6m to the gallon. Then I went out and bought an 86 4runner, 20mpg, 160k and the only thing ive had go wrong is a d/s front hub. The reason I feed all this out is this, my families into yota's and I was always the Jeep guy, my whole family has better mileage and longer vehicle life(other than my J10). But working for Jeep let me know this, the reason the Cherokee is not made any more, and this is a quote from the reps that came down was "Their just too reliable. Dealers make no money on them after the sale." any jeep after 96...probably a bad idea, but I would have to say my jeeps have had about the same longevity as my yota's. Sure more stuff on the jeeps break, but never so bad as to not get you home. The yota just removes the frustrations.

 

I mean aside from the usual stuff

 

For every 1 good jeep with 5ooK on it and no problems theres 20 more that overheat every 10 miles.
If you want to prove to yourself that toyotas are dependable go buy an 85 chevy 4x4 with original drivetrain and suspension drive it for a month then get back in your toyota.
Wait........... is that possible?
Better yet buy a new 4x4 chevy colorado drive it like i drive my toyota and call me in 20 years. I will still be driving my 84 toyota and you problably will too.

 

and for every single Jeep out of those 20, there's another 20 Toyota's with over 300k on the odometer

 

oh believe me, i know the 500k is a long shot, and she hasnt been without her probs, i also know that the only sevices i ever did on the inline 6's were radiators, water pumps, and head gaskets. I have her now, as I know when the world ends i'll have her to fall back on, and till then, my little 4runner will always get me there.

 

the only kinds of cars that last are the good ones so look around and see which ones are still around today. I've never been a fan of toyotas. they are slow as sheot. get horrible gas mileage for the size of the engine. and have more vaccuum hoses than any contraption i could think of. and u gotta be a midget to fit in one.

Im an american i will always drive american cars i wouldnt even drive my toyota except it was given to me for free. Then i started realizing the beauty beneath. But you cant say anything bad about a truk that an go 300,000 on original drivetrain.

Maybe its cuz toyotas dont have enough power to break a transmission but as much as i dislike them they are still impressive.

 

WWWWWWWWWWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
German cars? Whats wrong with German cars??


Yes I am the "cough" proud new owner of this POS! New motor, new tranny. Doesn't mean a damn thing! It still left me stranded on the way to the DMV to register it due to a wire
I drove my 93 22re to hell and back for 12 years. I sold it with 363,000 miles on it. With the ORIGINAL CLUTCH! Never left me stranded NOT ONCE!
All I ever did to it was routine maintenance- timing chain, break pads and thats about it.

 

I will NEVER own a german manufactured car after sticking my head under the hood of newer VW's and seeing the "craftsmanship" they put into it...

I'll never understand what all the hype's about; some people swear up and down about them being the best thing to ever set 4 tires on the road, but how many others out there have seen crap like the famous decintigrating oil dip-stick handle on the Beetles, Pasats, and Jettas

 

If I had any room left in my sig line, I'd quote you..

Thats probably the steering stops you're hearing if its a grinding noise (I've never heard a zombie dolphin), unless its the P/S pump. To fix the steering stops, coat them in anti-seize- works longer than grease. You're not going to damage anything by leaving it though.

PS- What's your employee discount at Lordco? I think I get 30% off because "I work for the city".

My cousin parked his '96 Ranger a couple months ago as it simply would not run. I'm going to find out what's wrong with it this weekend as he needs it up and running. I think it has 150K, and its already just a headache.

 

I think its more of a creaking than a grinding lol. Ill take a look at that in class tommorow. I also know that the ball joints are beyond the point that they should have been replaced a very long time ago, but I just ordered my lift kit and am going to do it all at once.

As for the discount, for over the counter parts, it usually works out to about 50% off, but not very many people end up paying the full price. I think my gas tank was listed as $400-$450, and i got it for around $250, but it also varies on what I am buying

 

haha, oh well maybe someone else will quote me. You see that I've got you quoted in my sig?

 

Exhibit B, my brothers V6 mitsu engine in his dodge intrepid, never maintained from about 100K on. Driven to hell and still survived to nearly 200k except the tranny went so it was scrapped. Notice, not the Japanese parts.