jon_7248

Alright, well I am pretty much a newb when it comes to long travel but here goes. I currently have a 4" lift which basicly has taller spindles and a drop bracket if I understand right for the front suspension to gain the 4" of lift. Now I want to save up for a long travel kit cause that would be a better suspension route than what I did when I was 18. My question is can I install the Total Chaos Second Gen Coilover kit like seen here http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/viewarticle.php?id=60 with the BJ spacer and drop bracket I have now? I think it would be kinda hard to revert back, but have no idea. I know this would be a lot of work, but would be far worth it for the suspenion travel and handling. Anyone have ideas on this? I tried to search, but either couldnt find an answer, or the search function would fail out on me.

Yota82

IMO, BJ spacers are a stupid idea. As far as I know, BJ spacers only go on the upper a arm so they wouldn't work on a Total Chaos Gen II kit because that kit uses an upper uniball and not a ball joint. As far as the drop bracket goes you can put a long travel kit on it as long as the drop brackets can use factory a arms BUT I don't know why you would want to do that. It shouldn't be hard to remove the drop brackets they should be just bolt on. A coilover TC kit will give you a 0-4" adjustable lift so say you already have the 4" drop braket lift and the 4" of TC lift. That is 8" of lift and if you are worried about handeling than that thing will surely dissapoint you. The first thing you would usually notice with long travel and coilovers is extremely bad body roll. Basicly the taller the truck is, the higher the center of gravity is, for a long travel application you want a low center of gravity for stability. With a 8" of lift and long travel it would be downright scary I recommend to take off the drop braket lift, scrap the BJ spcaer idea and do it right the first time.

mt_goat

I don't know about the drop bracket, but I would say there is no way the BJ spacers would be compatible with that Uni-ball joint.

deathrunner

Allright, it's a bad idea, but here is what is possible.

If you really need it all, you can use the Total Chaos Caddy Kit (Has an upper balljoint), the BJ spacers and the bracket lift. But it is a terrible idea in the real world. The size tires that would be required to look right with that muich lift would be way too much for your poor IFS cv's, ring gear, and shafts.

I'd recommend figuring out what it is that you plan to use your truck for, then figure out what you need from there.

Are you getting stuck with the bracket lift? Need morte travel, just add a BJ spacer.

Are you going fast and getting beat up. Then it might be time for a long travel kit. But don't plan on using eveything unless for some reason your driving warrants it.

And just to prove it is possible. Here is a 4runner with a bracket kit and LT:



This is an original Chaos caddy kit and shows that a BJ spacer could be added:




I had spoken to a guy who had a trailmaster kit with a chaos kit down here in socal. He verifired it to be a terrible idea. Everytime he would bash it, the bracket kit would spread out (Like they tend to do anyway). This causes terrible allignment. He ended up welding the kit together, adding braces, etc. and afterall that still determined it was a bad idea. Bracket kits weren't designed to be beat hard.

jon_7248

Really? never knew that one.


Im stuck with the drop bracket at present cause its the lift that is on it. I dont think I can simply bolt up the factory drop bracket cause isnt part of the process to install the drop bracket include cutting off the old one? I cant remember what was done when it was lifted years ago and I dont have the truck outside to run and check.

I know the TC kit gives between 0-4" of lift and wasnt sure if I could get away without adjusting the coilovers for the 4" of lift since I have the 4" drop bracket. I dont want more than 4 or 5" of lift. My real concern was the BJ spacer thats installed. I was completly unsure if that was compatable wit the TC kit.

jon_7248

Whats the difference? Im unfamilure to the make up of a balljoint and the uni-ball joint

AH64ID

It is very easy to remove a bracket lift. I have done it when I swapped one from my runner to my P/U. There is one part that bolts to the knuckle you will probally have to source, but otherwise its all there..


I think there would be silly amounts of stress on the drop bracketry if you were to use a LT kit like it was intended with a 4" bracket lift....

Yota82

The difference between a uniball arm and a BJ arm:



Also the problem with wanting to run a Generation I Caddy Kit with upper BJ's is that you can't retain 4WD with a coilover. It's a catch 22 because if you wan't 4WD and a coilover you have to get the Generation II kit but you can't run BJ spacers because of the uniball. But if you want BJ spacers with the Generation I you can't run a coilover and keep 4WD.

jon_7248

Well aint that a pisser! Oh damnit.

jon_7248

Is it possible to attach a stock bracket to a front end like this? link to my 4runner, sry image is big. I know someting was cut, just not sure if the brackets is able to get reinstalled.

here is another look.

AH64ID

on that lift you will need to find the front axle mount if you dont have it any more.. few bucks from a junkyard.. and the piece you cut was on the left where the stock axle mount it.. if you look there is one bolt hole, not two like on the right.. it wont affect your rig at all.. .but if you want to you can reweld a small tab there (if you plan to use a LT like it was intended you may want to for added streangth, but normally wont be an issue)

good looking rig by the way... if you want to get them to show up in the post put [img][/img] around the url

deathrunner

My trail master Kit was 100% reversible. Unless you have superflift bracket kit, you should be able to reverse as well. Most of the kits retain the stock crossmember (the part that mounts the diff). If that is the case, you just drop the spindle adapter, and all the bracketry and you can easily go back to stock. Nothing or very little is cut when a bracket lift is installed.

You can combine a tc kit and bj spacers, but you have to run torsion bars.

If you have an LT kit, why would you want BJ spacers? that extra 1.5" of travel is just going to screw with your cv joints anyway. Plus your balljoints would hate you anyway.

If you do anything, drop the bracket lift, install a gen II kit and run coilovers, that is the most reliable and best performance available among all the things we have discussed.

jon_7248

Thanks, that picture was taken 4 years ago or so when I got the lift. Thanks to my little brother (owner for the past 2.5 years) it no longer has those bumpers, lights, paint job, etc.

Anyone have a nice detailed shot of the front bracket stock? I cant find one up close and want to compare to just make sure I understand what it would take. Im a visual learner.

Bear80

Well did you want the TC kit to run higher speeds and jumps?

I run a setup that gives me anywhere from 0-4" lift, depending on which torsion bar size and pre-load adjustment. If I run a 25mm bar I can get up to 4" lift and have a VERY stable setup for high speed, if I run the stock bars I get about 2" lift and can get a full 11" of flex on the rocks. The biggest issue I have with it other than setting the alignment each time I swap t-bars, is the axles. You will need custom alxes that are stock length but can handle 11" travel.

jon_7248

If you notice, I have a completly differnt front crossmember than stock. It's not the original one and no I dont ahve the stock one anymore. Lift was done about 5 years I think.

I dont have a LT kit (want one), I have the current dropbracket/BJ spacer kit and was wondering of capatibility. I really dont wanna run BJ spacers with a LT kit cause it's not made for it from what I could tell, but if it was workable I would rather not spend the extra $ for something I dont need. However if I need the original spindles then I would have to sell these and get new ones, as well as a stock crossmember it seems. Glad I have a rear crossmember in place though... well it's 4" tall too so I guess it's out of the config as well

jon_7248

I do some high speed stuff, but mainly rock. I really want to get away from torsion bars if I can cause I want the ride and handling of the coilovers. Plus they can take the extra weight in the front more than torsion bars no?

Yota82

Total Chaos not necessarily for jumping. It is more of a better handling low center of gravity type of suspension. You can use stock T-100 axles which you can get for like $50 each from NAPA. IMO, the Downey/Rancho suspension requires more things that can be costly like the axles (Downey slip yoke) are pretty much required for that kit and they aren't cheap, also required are Mega travel upper BJ's. When it comes down to it, BJ's are less reliable and weaker than a uniball. A uniball will allow for more movement with long travel where a BJ will try to pull itself apart and bind. Coilovers are more reliable than torsion bars and LT is hard on torsion bars and BJs. The best bang for the buck is the TC Gen. II kit it's a big expense but it is extremely reliable and works better than most anything on the market.

Bear80

25mm t-bars can take a lot of weight up front.

I run the discontinued Rancho upper arms with 1 1/2" ball joint spacers. It's been said in the past that the Rancho arms where a good idea but poor execution. However I think they are by far stong enough for anything that isn't desert racing/jumps. The angle arm design of the Rancho arms give a HUGE handeling improvement over the stock setup.

You can run the set up I have with 25mm t-bars, and have the extra weight of a winch, dual batts etc, 3" lift. You'll only get about 10" travel, since the stiff t-bars will limit upward travel but have a setup that can run high speed dirt roads.

Bear80

Yota82, I completely agree that what I have is in essance the old Downey/Rancho kit and it has several limitations. But you can come out much cheaper than a TC kit, minus the axles needed. Which I strongly suggest avoiding the Downey slip yoke pos.

jon_7248

Alright, riddle me this. Take out the fact of the lower crossmember, why is it not possible to use a Gen2 kit with the spindle like the following? Take out all the height stuff cause that can be solved by not raising the coilovers soo high.

Why can you use a spindle that looks like this (almost identicle to what I have)

with an upper arm and uniball joint like this

?

Some will say that uniball and the ball joint are differnt, well they are. But they bolt up to the spindle the same way for the upper arm no? Im just wondering here. I think to damn much and always love asking 'why' cause I want to know why not and not people saying 'i wouldnt'. Im not bashing people's opinions here, but I want to see if it will work and what the reprecusions of such are (other than the damn height differenace)