sinneDBTB

i've don alot of engine work recently and i just got everything put back together and took er for a test drive. major power loss under load. idles and revs fine but it wants to stall out when i let out the clutch and it has a "can of spoons" type rattle under load.
i checked the timing with a light and it reads 20* advanced off cyl 1. if i turn the dist. wont that throw off the even side (2,4,6) ? is it possible that the timing belt is off a tooth or two on the odd side (1,3,5) and could advance my timing 10*?

heres a list of my recent engine work:
-plenum cleaned out
-intake cleaned
-injectors sonic cleaned and serviced
-new top end gaskets
-new wires, dist. cap and rotor. (plugs 3 months old)
-new fuel filter
-new o2 sensor
-new air filter

-*erg coming off as soon as i figure out the timing.

Justinlhc

I would check the cam timing and make sure it's correct before doing anything else.

sinneDBTB

that what i am thinking as well but i was hoping for some more advice before i go ahead and peel it all apart again. if i am not mistaken the only way to check the cam timing is to remove the timing belt cover and look at the markings. correct? is there an easier method?

scope103

What is the ignition timing supposed to be? 10, isn't it? (You need to look at the label under the hood, but mine is 10). So right out of the box it sounds like you're just too far advanced (which would explain why it idles but does poorly under load, and the "can of spoons" is just knocking.)

Is there a reason why you are concerned about the valve timing? While you could certainly have made an error there, I would get the ignition timing set to the correct number first.

sinneDBTB

yes 10* stock but i have read that 12* is better. i had to remove and idler pulley when i took out my intake manifold in a previous thread. i dont want to adjust the igntion timing yet because that will throw off the other side will it not? if cyl.1 reads 10* advanced would that not point to valve timing?

Justinlhc

You can just take off the front cover which is only like 8-10 10mm bolts and check it real quick. I'm not sure what you're asking about the timing. If the ignition timing if off for one cylinder, it will also be off for the rest of them.

sinneDBTB

actually its 11 bolts plus the water inlet and studs and the fan. haha
the reason i think it may be the valve timing is that when i removed the top idler pulley it left the timing belt slack and i think i may have installed it off by a tooth or two. so you figure i should just try turning the dist. first?

Justinlhc

Well if you removed the upper tensioner and didn't do anything with the lower tensioner, there is your problem. You released the upper tension and the lower tensioner ate up the slack.

If your lower tensioner is hyrdo you need to take it out, compress it, stick an allen wrench in it to lock it, install it, install the upper tensioner with the timing gears set correctly, then pull the allen wrench out of the lower hydro tensioner.

sinneDBTB

not the tensioner, the idler pulley that bolts directly to the top of the intake manifold. it is located between the cam pulleys.

hers a diagram:
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...67timingbe.pdf

scope103

a. You know the ignition timing is wrong. If the valve timing is also wrong, fixing the valve timing will not fix the ignition timing. These are two completely different (but slightly related) things.

b. Fixing the ignition timing (which you have to do sooner or later) requires loosening one bolt. If you fix the ignition timing and it starts running like you would expect it to, I don't think you're going to bother pulling it apart to re-check the valve timing.

TNRabbit

STOP STOP STOP! Did you have the timing belt off to begin with??

Did you short the two terminals before you checked the timing??

Assembly and Use Instructions:

* Simply unfold the scan tool (i.e. paper clip, piece of wire, etc.).
* Precisely bend the legs to match the spacing of the diagnostic connector terminals.
o Early engines label them T and E1, later models may list them as T and TE1.
* Shove it in.
* Check timing

sinneDBTB

i just dont see how my ignition went out 10* when it was running fine before i cleaned up the top end... wouldnt the power loss under load still point to valves though? forgive my ignorance.

sinneDBTB

yes i did.
i did notice that my engine light blinks at a steady fast rate with no pauses when the jumper is in place. is that a trouble code?

Justinlhc

Same thing. Trust me, when you removed that "idler", it allowed the lower tensioner to fully extend which is going to throw your cam timing way off.

sinneDBTB

thanks for clearing that up, how do i know if the lower tesioner is hydro or nor not? my engine is a 90 3vze.

Justinlhc

Page 14 on that link you posted shows what I'm talking about. I'm not really sure which engines had them and which ones didn't. You should be able to look below the power steering pump and see the hydro tensioner.

sinneDBTB

ok, thanks for the help. i am going in, i'll report back in a few hours!

TNRabbit

Then you need to start over to ensure your cam timing is correct. You probably have the spring lower tensioner since yours is a 1990. Loosen the tension enough to let the slack back in the belt, get your crank at TDC, pull the belt from the RIGHT up to the right cam sprocket (lined up with the mark) & turn it VERY SLIGHTLY to the right and put the belt on. then run it under upper tensioner, to the left cam sprocket. Again, you will probably have to turn the sprocket JUST SLIGHTLY to the right to get the teeth in correctly. ALL your slack should be between the left cam sprocket & crank. Now tighten the lower tensioner. You should be good.

Justinlhc

Good luck. I just went out and looked at mine and with the power steering in place, it looks like a SOB to get to. It was much easier with the power steering unbolted and pushed out of the way.

sinneDBTB

problem solved!!!!

so the cam timing was way the heck out. the left was 6 teeth counter clockwise and the right was 1 tooth ahead clockwise. all in all not too hard to fix. i didnt have the hydro tensioner either. i also disconnected the egr. seems to have yielded some gains in throttle response.
all in all with the work that i did my truck sure seems a lot more peppy!

thanks everyone!