xentrino

I am going to crank my newly installed (remanned) 3VZE for the first time this weekend so I've been doing some research on breaking it in. Looking at this site: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm, which was recommended in this forum, it says not to use synthetic oil until the rings are seated b/c it is too 'slick' to allow the rings to seat properly. I have already filled the engine with half-synthetic, poured over the camshafts. I haven't primed it yet but I have turned it over a few times by hand. Should I drain it and fill w/ real oil?

vegaskurt

I've heard the same thing also many times. That you should not break in new rings with synthetic. If it were me I would drain it.

dstrick32

Drain it out and use regular oil for the first couple of changes and then you can swap over to the synthetic.

KTMR1der03

I just got my 4runner back with a remanned motor, put 1900 miles on it so far. The mechanic that put it in used synthetic from the start, I didnt know you could swap oils like that, ever. My motor is running excellent.

Also, the company that sold me my motor suggested carrying no more than 1 passenger until break-in is complete, properly inflated tires, etc. Every little thing you wouldnt think about puts more stress on the motor.

ovrrdrive

If it were true that synthetic oil were too slick to break in a motor properly then there would be no oil failures at all in motors that use it. Manufacturers would say to only use it, and would void your warranty as soon as you put dino oil in your truck. There would only be two types of oil, break in and synthetic, because who would put oil that lets the engine wear in it because it was so inferior?

Truth is there are many manufacturers that use synthetic oil in their engines right from the factory. The old like of thinking that you can't use it from the start is a myth.

Engines have to be “broken in” before using synthetic oil.
I need to break in my engine with non-detergent oil.
If I use regular oil or synthetic oil in a new engine, my engine will take longer to break in.

Fact
It was common years ago for engine manufacturers to recommend non-detergent oils for engine break-in. This was when the pistons used cast-iron “square-faced” rings and the rings needed to wear some to “seat” into the engine. With today’s technology of oils and engine manufacturing, engine manufacturers no longer recommend the use of non-detergent oils for the break-in period. In fact, engines today are factory-filled with high quality API SL performance motor oil, which contains high levels of detergents and dispersant additives.




Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1.
Reality:
You can start using Mobil 1® in new vehicles at any time, even in brand new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:
Acura RDX
Aston Martin
Bentley Amage and Bentley GT
Cadillac CTS, CTS-V, XLR, XLR-V, SRX and STS and STS-V
Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
Chevrolet SSR
Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
Chrysler 300C SRT-8 and Crossfire SRT-6
Cobalt SS
Dodge Ram SRT-10
Dodge Charger SRT-8, Magnum, and Viper
Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
Mercedes SLR
Mitsubishi EVO III
Pontiac GTO
All Porsche vehicles
Saturn Red Line
Viper SRT-10
One of the myths surrounding synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

AH64ID

I would use dino oil for 5,000 miles. The 3.0 was designed 18 years ago, and I am sure that technoly on rebuild is better, but not much.. there is no money in it. None of the rigs listed have engines that were designed in the 80's, synthetic wasnt as common then, in fact they are all high performance engines.. The 3.0 does not have current high performance engine manufacturing technology.

Unless the rig comes from the factory with synthetic in it I would run the first few thousand miles with dino oil. Two reasons, the aformentioned break in, and on a new motor I like to change the oil after it gets hot once (or home from the dealership), again at 100, 1000, 3000, then 5000 miles...then I'll swap to synthetic, and get on my 15000 mile oil change interval with a filter every 5K. This is what I will be doing on my new taco I get in the spring (i dont think it comes with synthetic), I also will be adding a bypass... but thats a different post....

MMA_Alex

I know i've heard this myth a ton of times, but i totally disagree with it. As stated above there are a ton of vehicles that come stock with synthetic.

MonsterMaxx

I always use Dino oil in the early phases.

First, because I dump the first lot after 100 miles and Syn is expensive.
Second because rings take time to seat and Syn delays the process.

When rings aren't seated you burn oil, get blowby and don't get performance.

When mine goes back together in the next few weeks I'll run Dino for the first 100, 1000, 2500, 5000. Then switch to Syn.


FYI: it's true that Syn is a little 'slicker' but it's real benifit is breaking down under high temperature/load/contaminations. The Syn holds up better than Dino does. That's why with Syn you can move your changes to 5000 mile intervals where you'd be at 3000 mile intervals with Dino.

Also, for that first start I like something a little thinner like 5w-30, just gets everything lubricated quicker during startup and you aren't going to load it heavily anyway. After which I move to 20-50 (in a warm climate)


Also, those modern engines are designed differently. Ring & cyl wall technology has come a long way in 20 years. In fact, today there are coatings that when applied to the cyl walls will seat the rings in the first few minutes of operation.


And don't forget, if you have a problem and have to drain, SYN is really expensive to be throwing away.

AH64ID

Yep, and ALL of those vehicles have hi performance modern engines, not a 3.slow designed in the mid 80's. You can only "upgrade" so much on a reman, and I doubt that companies use new technology parts when rebuilding 3.slow.. there is NO money in it, so why do it.. remaned 3.0's have the oldschool technology, they need an oldschool breakin...

ovrrdrive

Normally I agree with most of what you say but in this thread you're really talking out of your ass...

Heresay is not to be taken as gospel just because its what you've always thought or heard.

The people that make the oil say it's ok to use as breakin oil. The people that make the cars say its safe to use.

Not to sound overly rude here, but who are you to disagree with them?

What scientific basis have you for your claims?

And don't say because you heard its "slicker" than dino oil either...

MMA_Alex

Synthetic oil has been around for a long time, and holds both API approval, and SAE viscosity grading that states that it meets the same standards as all dino oils. Amsoil, and Mobil 1 synthetic oils both recieved API certifications on their oils in the early 70's.

86SR522REEFI

I still stick to my good ole' dino, Castrol Syntec High Mileage 10w30

Its cheap, its good, i have no problems not spending extra money on a 20 year old truck.

Your question, Synthetic and dino oil are of the same principal. They both lubricate, they both clean and they both protect. Synthetic is just man made. I personally do not see a difference. My .04

rezrunner92

I know this is crazy soiunding but I once had a customer who used synthetic oil and he would come in every 5 to 7 thousand miles with two buckets a bed sheet and a new filter. When I would drain the synthetic oil out he would strain it though the sheet while I installed the filter then he would pour it back in. I made him do that because I didn't want the hassle if there was a problem later. He put 30,000 miles on that oil. Usually had to add just about a quart of new every change. He finally sold the truck but it was still running great.

xentrino

I didn't realize that my question would touch off such a contentious debate! I think I would rather be safe than sorry so I'll drain the synth and use dino for the break-in.

AH64ID

Wow a little touchy are we???

Not sure stating obvious facts is talking out my ass, but I guess it is

So what part is coming out my ass?? Not sure I have said anything to contradict what AmsOil or the others put out. My Dad is a marine shipwright and AmsOil dealer, you dont use it on breakins.. espicially on a diesel as it takes much longer to break one of them in. Other AmsOil representatives has said dont use it on breakin. It doenst allow proper breakin in a reasobable amount of time.

So lets hear your explanation, and how about from an engine comperable to a 3.0, not a modern high performance engine.

rezrunner92

That's a good point. LOL.

I remember once when my grandad built a 350 chevy for a guy that the rings wouldn't seat so they drained the oil and ran transmission fluid instead of oil for a little while. Don't know how long. Not long I am sure.

ovrrdrive

Actually I've only seen opinions and heresay posted in your replies...


You keep saying it's obvious and that everyone knows it, I just wanted to see your basis for your assertions.

I hear it over and over again on these forums, but no one can give any proof or reasons why other than they have just always heard it so it must be true.

I was simply asking you to back up your claims on your position, like I did with reputable sources and links.

And personally, I would think a high performance engine would be harder on oil not the other way around. Surely if works in a 400+ horsepower v8 my little old 116hp 22re will be fine with it too...

I've given my explanation, I was hoping to hear yours.

AH64ID

High performance engines are built to much much tighter tolerances. They have to be to support the high power. A 22RE and 3.0 are not build to these standards. Excellent engines they are, but they do not have the new technolgy that allows the rapid breakin of the rings.

Synthetics are provide less friction, less friction means less wear, you will not wear the imperfections out of standard grade parts as quick. Performance grade parts, such as in Z06 6.0L have a tighter tolerance. There is a reason they cost more, and not all of it is the bling factor, the parts are better and higher quality.

The AmsOil web site say to wait until the first oil change interval to swap to synthetic, on some rigs that 3K-5K. This is due to the large amounts of metal particels produced during this timeframe. The website also says it wont hinder breakin, but suggests waiting a full change interval.

You will also notice that new cars dont have break in requirments like older ones did, I cant remember what it was on my 92 but IIRC it was more than my 03 runner.

This is about the same line as I have been saying.. I prefer to wait until 5K to change it on a gasser, and at least 10K on a diesel.

My family has been dealing AmsOil for over 20 years, the reps we deal with always say not to swap it right away, thats good enough reason for me. And on a reman/rebuild wait until the rings seat, which depending on how you drive can be a while. Took 8K miles on our rebuilt 390 in a 66 T-bird, then we swapped to AmsOil, the rings werent even fully seated.. took another 2K to stop burning AmsOil.

What I am putting out may be hearsay to you, but its personal and professional experiance with AmsOil.

typical8o8

Yotatech is a forum after all. I'll bet that even engineers and mechanics wouldn't be able to come to an agreement on this.

If you want to be safe, go w/ Dino for break-in. It is proven to work just fine. 3VZ-E's came with dino from the manufacturer so I'll stick with that. If you want to use synth for break-in on an engine that was developed 20 years ago, let us know how it goes.