sb5walker

Yes, I'm sure you're right. After all, a 5W-40 is an 8x situation(!) as compared to the 3x 10W-30. Fortunately, all 5W-40s are full synthetics, as far as I know, so they need less VIIs, though they do need some. In the case of a 5W-40, 5W-50 or 0W-40, I think even PAOs need help from some VIIs. I suspect it would be impossible to make an acceptable 5W-40 (or 0W-30 or 0W-40) out of mineral oil.

EDIT: A 15W-40 is another possible way to go. Especially if it were a full PAO. Amsoil makes a CJ-4/SM rated one:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/dme.aspx
And a CI-4+/SL rated one that probably has more zinc:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ame.aspx

Either would probably hold up great, even in severe service.

Resto-noob

iTrader: (3)

PM to come, this isn't a Ford tech board...

woodyth

iTrader: (1)

I just ordered the 20195 and a 6 pack of rotella t6. I am going to try this in the engine. My question is does anyone use any oil additives?


I agree this should be a sticky!

woodyth

iTrader: (1)

anyone?

Teuf

My guess is very few do. Oil companies do a good job at figuring out whats needed to begin with. I used to do slik 50. It probably did not hurt or help at all.
My .02

sb5walker

The only additive I would consider adding would be zddp - the zinc phosphate anti-wear additive that is so effective on sliding parts, especially the vulnerable cam followers on the 22R series motors. Ideally you want between 1200 and 1400 ppm of that. Too much is as bad as too little. Modern SM rated oils only have 700 or 800 and that is not enough to provide much protection to sliding parts. The problem is knowing how much to add to reach 1400. That's one of the reasons I use the T6 - already has the zddp at the right level. So do CI-4 rated diesel oils. Many of the newer CJ-4 diesel oils don't have enough zddp, but some do.

Otherwise, my feeling is that you should not add anything else to the oil. All decent quality oils already have all the additives they need, in proper proportion. You're much more likely to mess up the chemistry than to help anything. Why add anything? Just to "make it better??"

Slick 50 used to contain powdered PTFE - Teflon - that has been shown to clog oil filters and obstruct oil passages. Even Du Pont, the company that makes Teflon, has recommended not using it in engines. ZDDP works better and is safe. Currently, Slick 50 apparently contains nothing but - CAS # 64742-88-7 which is mineral spirits (paint thinner):
http://www.rittco.com.au/resources/S...LA_ENG_TRT.pdf (SLICK 50 ADVANCED FORMULA ENGINE TREATMENT)
http://www.rittco.com.au/resources/S...N_ENG_-TRT.pdf (SLICK 50 SYNCRON SYNTHETIC ENGINE TREATMENT)
http://www.rittco.com.au/resources/S...HI_MILEAGE.pdf (SLICK 50 ENGINE TREATMENT FOR HIGH MILEAGE VEHICLES)
(funny, those three different products appear to have IDENTICAL ingredients)

Not sure what the benefit is of adding paint thinner to your oil (???) Besides enriching the slick marketing guys? In fact I would think adding a degreaser to your oil might be seriously counter-productive.

And at $20/quart, buying mineral spirits labeled as SLICK 50 costs you $80 a gallon, when getting the same amount of identical stuff at Home Depot would run you less than $10. Come to think of it, that is pretty slick...

snobdds

I am one of the few that thinks all oils today are too thick. I am a huge fan of 0w-30 or 0w-40 oils. I use Mobil one 0w-40 in the princess's Mercedes ML500 (MB recommended oil) and love it. It is a true grave IV oil. I change the oil about every year or 12,000 miles.

I rebuilt my 22re about 7,000 miles ago and plan on switching from a Dino 10W-30 to Mobil 0W-30 in about another 1,000 miles. I just want to make sure everything is nice and broken in.

Here is an article about oil, it is intense and should be right up your alley sb5walker. Basically oil flow is much more importiant than oil pressure. If pressure was the main factor in lubrication, then we would all be running 90 weight oil. Clear your schedule, it takes a while to read this...

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles

sb5walker

Well, first, as documented upthread, a 0W-30 is JUST AS THICK!!!!!!! as a 10W-30 at operating temp. The only time a 0W oil is "thinner" than an oil with a higher Winter weight is near or below freezing, and then it is not "thin" but in fact is many times thicker at that temp than a 20W-50 is at operating temp.

So a 0W-30 or 0W-40 is not "thin". In fact, the most common 0W-30 - Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (so called "German Castrol") - is actually almost as thick as a 40 weight at operating temp, and since it is a Group IV and holds its viscosity WAY better than most other oils, after 3k miles or so it will probably be thicker at op temp than most 10W-40s after the same # of miles. The only reason I don't recommend that particular oil is that according to reports on bobistheoilguy, it apparently does not contain any seal-preserving esters, which means the PAOs are likely to cause seals to dry out.

Second, that ferrarichat article has been bouncing around the internet for many years and has convinced many to use thinner oils. However, the guy is a medical doctor, not an engineer, and he was obsessed with flow and cooling, at the expense of lubricating ability or wear prevention. I notice a few years ago he added material to the end of it which backpedals somewhat, saying most engines should use 30 weight, while some should use 20 or 40. So that's at least a little better than the impression given by his original article which would have everyone using 0W-20 based only on flow. I do agree with him that a 0W-40 and 15W-40 have the same viscosity at operating temp - I made that point myself. And I agree with his concern that you should use a low enough W weight so that the oil will flow at startup in the lowest temps it will see.

As to the idea that "flow is much more important than oil pressure", well, you're leaving oil film out of the equation. If flow is the only thing that is important, why not just use paint thinner? It will flow much better than any oil. Of course, the reason is that paint thinner - or really thin oil - will not provide an oil film of any thickness, which after all is what protects the moving parts and is the whole point of using oil in the first place.

The Noria corporation is an independent machinery lubrication consultant, which provides advice to major manufacturers. They are not affiliated with any oil company. And they warn that too-thin oil does not lubricate adequately: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils They are talking about the weight at operating temp, and essentially criticizing the carmakers for recommending 20 weights for gas mileage reasons only, while 30 or 40 weights would provide dramatically better protection for the engine.

But snobdds, since you are talking about using 30 and 40 weights, you'll have oils of sufficient weight. There's no problem in using 0W- oils at higher temps, and at subfreezing temps those will provide a great advantage over 10W- oils. The only problem with using them is that even synthetic 0W- oils must contain a fair amount of VIIs, and those - as documented in earlier posts - are vulnerable to viscosity breakdown. For that reason, I would recommend full synthetic 5W- oils over the 0W- ones, except in temps below 0 deg F.

woodyth

iTrader: (1)

I got Rotella T Synthetic SAE 5W-40 and the puralator 20195. I am going to get it changed this week. I am really curious how long the oil will stay "golden" Really like the size of the filter and the outside coating, make me feel like I won't drop it, and at about DOUBLE the size of the original, I agree it should be better!!!
Thanks for all your help guys!!!!

Woody

PS WHO BET THAT THERE WOULD BE A SAFETY IN THE GAME...............THIS GUY!