Sway bars
01-30-2015, 11:54 AM
#1
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Sway bars
What do you guys do with your sway bar when you go wheeling? Do you take the entire thing off or just unhook and try to tie it up out of the way(seems sketchy)?
01-30-2015, 12:18 PM
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I removed the one on my pickup when I was swapping in an engine, I didn't have any issues with driving it. The IFS still didn't flex a whole lot though. On my 4Runner I'm going to try and keep it on.
01-30-2015, 08:38 PM
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I did a ramp travel index (RTI) test on mine with and without the sway bar attached and concluded it made almost no measureable difference one way or the other, so I just leave it attached all the time. Putting a locker in is far, far more effective than messing with the sway bar.
01-30-2015, 08:56 PM
#4
Removing the sway bar on an ifs rig will get you very little if any gain for off roads. With a bone stock rig let some air pressure out of the tires and focus on the best possible line through the trail. Best upgrade you could do for off roads is a locker like mentioned above. If you want to spend some money but can't do a locker either keep saving or look at installing some armor for you rig. Good quality skids go along ways. Also rock slider are nice to protect your rocker panels. Good luck hope this helps.
01-30-2015, 11:13 PM
#5
it seems everyone is talking about the front end. What is your experience with removing the sway bar in the rear? I was messing around with it today and I think its flexing better without the sway bar in the rear. being a solid axle maybe makes a difference? also I don't think it's so much adding off-roading capabilities in the sense that the locker would help, for me, it's better because you get more reach with the tires so you're not rocking around going Up and down hills in pits and ruts. for sure the locker does a tremendous amount of work on the trail, but I think having the flex gives me more confidence in certain situations
01-31-2015, 01:11 PM
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On my 92 IFS 4Runner I made two different runs, One with and another without the front sway bar.
It made a big difference, With it removed it stopped allot of the bump noise and vibration traveling up into the cab, second it allows allot more independent flex.
When one wheel was pushed up the swaybar would cause the whole vehicle to go up and even lift the other wheel off the ground and anyone without a front locker will know you lose all drive in the front and possibility of breaking CVJ increases as the faster speed tire comes back down.
I spend the time putting them on and off as its not hard, I like the better handling on the pavement as well.
It made a big difference, With it removed it stopped allot of the bump noise and vibration traveling up into the cab, second it allows allot more independent flex.
When one wheel was pushed up the swaybar would cause the whole vehicle to go up and even lift the other wheel off the ground and anyone without a front locker will know you lose all drive in the front and possibility of breaking CVJ increases as the faster speed tire comes back down.
I spend the time putting them on and off as its not hard, I like the better handling on the pavement as well.
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02-02-2015, 07:07 AM
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When I disconnect my sway bar I only remove one side's end link. One 14mm box wrench and one 14mm deep socket and I'm done. No need to remove the whole bar, it just tags along with the suspension on whatever side you leave connected.
02-02-2015, 07:10 AM
#10
That works for the front, but for the rear the sway bar moved up and eventually comes in contact with the frame/axle support... kind of looses the purpose of it beind disconnected then.
02-02-2015, 08:51 AM
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For highway operation, sway bars are more essential on IFS axles than on solid axles. The reason has to do with what happens when the body rolls. With a solid axle, the wheels stay perpendicular to the road even if the body rolls to the outside of the turn. With IFS, the wheels stay mostly perpendicular to the vehicle horizontal axis, so when the body rolls to the outside of a turn, the outside wheel tucks under, making a roll-over more likely. The sway bar is there to reduce body roll, so definitely keep it attached when you're cruising down the twisty canyons at highway speeds.
Those of you who remember Ralph Nader and Unsafe at Any Speed will recall that this was part of the problem with the Corvair.
Those of you who remember Ralph Nader and Unsafe at Any Speed will recall that this was part of the problem with the Corvair.
02-05-2015, 08:45 AM
#13
I ditched my sway bar years before I went SAS. I never turned back. I felt a little more negative body roll. But lets face it a lifted 4X4 that is set up for wheelin is not intended for high speed driving on road.
I've driven the 4rnr without issue across the US, twisty mountain roads, and as a DD. No not having the sway bar did not make the 4rnr flex like an SAS. I imagine that as stated it did not increase angles on a ramp. But it increased off road traction. Yes I had a locker in front and read, aired down tires, and trail armor.
The bottom line is that when you start making modifications to suspension you need to adjust your driving accordingly. Failure to do so can cost you. I feel like this point is missed in many of the post I see about suspension modification and auto lockers to tire selection.
There is a couple solutions like swaybar disconnects that give you the best of both worlds.
I've driven the 4rnr without issue across the US, twisty mountain roads, and as a DD. No not having the sway bar did not make the 4rnr flex like an SAS. I imagine that as stated it did not increase angles on a ramp. But it increased off road traction. Yes I had a locker in front and read, aired down tires, and trail armor.
The bottom line is that when you start making modifications to suspension you need to adjust your driving accordingly. Failure to do so can cost you. I feel like this point is missed in many of the post I see about suspension modification and auto lockers to tire selection.
There is a couple solutions like swaybar disconnects that give you the best of both worlds.
02-11-2015, 04:30 PM
#14
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4crawler, wabfab and northwest off road all sell quick detach anti-sway bar end links...
All modern vehicles that sit high like ours all substantial anti-roll electronic controls that affect steering, braking, etc, to prevent rolls. Our trucks just have the anti-sway bars... If you like to take corners fast at limited access highway speeds, you need the anti-sway end links on your front at least...
I found much tighter cornering just by replacing worn out bushings alone... Would hate to see how much our trucks dipped when cornering w/o any at all at 70+ mph highway or 50+ mph on tight turn exit ramps...
Also a good read: http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...or-performance
And several more posts continue...
All modern vehicles that sit high like ours all substantial anti-roll electronic controls that affect steering, braking, etc, to prevent rolls. Our trucks just have the anti-sway bars... If you like to take corners fast at limited access highway speeds, you need the anti-sway end links on your front at least...
I found much tighter cornering just by replacing worn out bushings alone... Would hate to see how much our trucks dipped when cornering w/o any at all at 70+ mph highway or 50+ mph on tight turn exit ramps...
Also a good read: http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...or-performance
They key to removing the swaybar is valving in the coil-overs and rear shocks. Coil and leaf build plays a factor too (the weight the coil and leaves are made to bear), but the valving is the sweet spot.
I have always preferred IFS trucks without swaybars.
But, it is important to know what a swaybar does for our trucks. It is more than just roll control (keeping the chassis level under cornering force), but about understeer.
Manufacturers always bias a vehicles handling towards understeer, as opposed to oversteer (the rear end swinging out). This is accomplished in two ways for an IFS pick-up.
1. Positive Camber: Positive camber (the tires like this \ / ) allows for a smooth transition from neutral to understeer as cornering load increases.
2. Stiff anti-swaybars: A stiff front suspension that has decreased cornering loading (because of the swaybar) will keep the car level and reduce front end grip, allowing the vehicle to handle more neutral, or understeer.
So, why remove the swaybar:
1. Improved Articulation in Technical Terrain: You all know that one
2. A more neutral handling truck: This is another reason why I removed the swaybar. Ever since my road course days I have prefered the a neutral handling suspension, which is to say minimal understeer, and ease of inducing oversteer with throttle application. A Tacoma with good coil-overs (like the Donahoes) and a firm valved rear shock will handle great at speed off-highway with the swaybar removed. My truck has a small lift and low COG so I can really push the truck on dirt roads, using the 4wd to pull the front end around. The lack of swaybar allows the outside front tire to load and pull through the corner.
On the highway (which is highly tactile), all the above goes out the window. No reason to run without the swaybar. My truck is only used for trips and on the trail, so no loss for me...
I have always preferred IFS trucks without swaybars.
But, it is important to know what a swaybar does for our trucks. It is more than just roll control (keeping the chassis level under cornering force), but about understeer.
Manufacturers always bias a vehicles handling towards understeer, as opposed to oversteer (the rear end swinging out). This is accomplished in two ways for an IFS pick-up.
1. Positive Camber: Positive camber (the tires like this \ / ) allows for a smooth transition from neutral to understeer as cornering load increases.
2. Stiff anti-swaybars: A stiff front suspension that has decreased cornering loading (because of the swaybar) will keep the car level and reduce front end grip, allowing the vehicle to handle more neutral, or understeer.
So, why remove the swaybar:
1. Improved Articulation in Technical Terrain: You all know that one
2. A more neutral handling truck: This is another reason why I removed the swaybar. Ever since my road course days I have prefered the a neutral handling suspension, which is to say minimal understeer, and ease of inducing oversteer with throttle application. A Tacoma with good coil-overs (like the Donahoes) and a firm valved rear shock will handle great at speed off-highway with the swaybar removed. My truck has a small lift and low COG so I can really push the truck on dirt roads, using the 4wd to pull the front end around. The lack of swaybar allows the outside front tire to load and pull through the corner.
On the highway (which is highly tactile), all the above goes out the window. No reason to run without the swaybar. My truck is only used for trips and on the trail, so no loss for me...
Nice explanation, Scott. I would add that for drivers with little or no formal on-track drivers' training, a vehicle that tends toward oversteer is not good on the street. A vehicle that wants to bring the rear end around is not safe during evasive maneuvers (say, avoiding debris on the highway) and most drivers over-estimate their ability to correct an oversteer condition. They will often over-correct and make the situation worse. So, for folks here whose vehicles spend the majority of their time on the highway and see the ocassional off-road adventure, leaving the swaybars intact and connected is advisable. A quick-disconnect for trails would probably be ideal for non-dedicated expedition vehicles.
Last edited by RSR; 02-11-2015 at 05:40 PM.
02-19-2015, 05:32 PM
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On my 87 4Runner I noticed a big difference driving with speed on fire roads. Much more "plush" than when the sway bar was on. As far as articulation it helped along with adding low profile bump stops. My heep friends keep dumping money in their suspension and still have to be winched in places mine stock ifs suspension goes through, with a 3" BL to clear the 33s. Oh yeah locked front and back. Another thing I highly suggest is a budbilt crossmember for the transfer case in stead of te stock one that is a huge hang up. Along with armor like others have suggested.
02-19-2015, 09:47 PM
#19
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When i lifted my truck, and installed sway aways i ditched the swaybar. I found the ride to be a little nicer on gravel roads, and trails. Also with IFS every little bit of articulation helps 
Someone else mentioned getting lower profile bump stops, that is a cheap way to squeeze a little more travel out of your ifs as well 
But as stated above, lockers will give you the best edge off road, more-so than almost anything else, tires help too
Someone else mentioned getting lower profile bump stops, that is a cheap way to squeeze a little more travel out of your ifs as well But as stated above, lockers will give you the best edge off road, more-so than almost anything else, tires help too
Last edited by Cookie Monster; 02-19-2015 at 09:49 PM.
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