Discombobulated

Hey Grego how much did the fat mat cost you to do the truck??

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

I don't remember exactly, but i want to say around $80 for a 100 sq ft...I shopped around for a while and I think I ended up finding a guy on ebay getting rid of some. And I only used around 70 sq ft. and was very generous in my installation, doubling and even tripling in some areas because I wasn't worried about running out of material.

Remember doubling/tripling doesn't multiply the sound dampening by that same amount. I think I read that although it does help to double/triple you're only increasing effectiveness by a smaller percentage.

Discombobulated

Nice I will look into it I had my carpet out installing my amp and sub and it definitely has nothing but carpet but not hard to take it all out again. Did you notice a difference in temp also I mean the floor heat from exhaust I would imagine would be improved as well.

O and my bad OP sorta hijacking but not I guess, post some pics of your finished product before you put it all back together.

RAD4Runner

Yeah, mine's gonna look like that pretty soon. I can definitely hear the noise coming up from the drivetrain hump righ now. Will surely cover that as well as the lever cover plate. Then will add closed-cell foam before putting carpet back. Still waiting for input on foam/cushion/insulation that will give most bang for buck

I'm driving it around with only the driver seat right now - LOL!

No worries, it's all good discussion.
I'm pretty sure that layer would give some amount of thermal insulation, and the closed-cell foam will do more.

No worries about the weight. I found that rear deck has a carpet-covered particle board that's 3/8" thick and weighs 20 pounds. Heck, I don't plan on hauling a washer and dryer with my Runner so I'm removing that- will offset weight of dampening I'm adding. I'm keeping track of how much weight I'm adding. I know that 5 rolls weigh 18.3 pounds, and some of that is packaging that will not go on truck (also keeping track of that)

MortonPhotographic

^^Greg 92 looks pretty well hooked up!

I know you said you weren't going to remove the tar mat, and I agree. No reason to go through that much work to remove good sound deadening--and then have to pay to put it back.

If you haven't already done it, I would try a wire wheel--not to grind away any tar, but to go lightly over the surface and see if it will grab any fibers. Not sure if it will work, but I would try it. I tend to use lacquer thinner to loosen glue stuff like that. Be careful, wear gloves and use a repsirator in a well ventilated area!!!

There are different types of noise to deaden. Noise from the outside that resonates through the sheet metal can be dampened by adding mass to the sheet metal--like the factory tar stuff. There are plenty of products on the market. Anything that is sticky and has mass (is fairly heavy) will help reduce the volume of this type of noise.

Over the top of the mass deadener, you can add something soft to dampen ambient noise--like the carpet and Jute padding under it. Sound does not reflect off this as well as hard surfaces like vynil, metal or plastic. You can buy padded meterials like this that are also tpyically heavy to further deaden sound, or use something like house carpet padding that will do a similar job.

One of other type of noise is rattles. This is two think banging together--plastic on metal, metal on metal, or whatever. To deaden this you want to put some type of padding in between the two items, or tie them together on some way so they will not bang into each other. For example, if your license plate rattles you can put some house weather stripping on the back of the plate to stop it from banging against the tailgate.

"Lightweight" sound deadening in is kind of a marketing gimic. Bottom line, mass and soft surfaces dampen noise.

RAD4Runner

Amen!
Yeah, steel brush grabs fiber enough but will try mineral spirit to soften adhesive.
I also notice that on this truck many un-mounted electrical connectors have foam covering. I'll reinforce those, too.

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

No, never noticed a difference, but I'm sure there is. It's usually pretty warm here in socal year round so I never gave it a thought, just roll up the windows and flip the A/C on if it's too hot.

dcole

if you are confident you could build a fiberglass enclosure that would definitely be your best option if you wanted to go with the stealth/minimalistic approach... there are tons of tutorials out there that can easily be found via google.


p.s. if other than mat and padding, sometimes you just need to fill an open void or ten... I would HIGHLY recommend "great stuff door & window", it comes in a yellow/ red can and stays soft(ish) after it expands. Unlike the original "great stuff" which can break things

Motox711

I P&S'd my whole runner, i can't believe the difference. It's like a brand new 87 runner. the doors made the whole difference. Unforturnately i was embarrassed at taking pics because i thought i was being anal about doing everything with P&S. feeling better now seeing yours. looking good though

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Wow, nice work/info/going so far! Thanks to Grego and Morton and others as well

I've been wanting to do something LIKE this for a long time now. Getting ideas.

DAYUMMMMMMMM, browsing this site turns into MONEY BEING VACUUMED FROM MY WALLET! hahahaha

RAD4Runner

Thanks for the input, guys! Steel brush wheel surely worked. Best on hard cold tar otherwise fuzz sticks to soft tar.
For isolation/echo absorption, I think I'm gonna go with a layer of Ensolite on top of old (but washed) padding, then put carpet back on top of it. My reasoning- air and jute under the Ensolite will trap more noise.

RAD4Runner

So as you see, the first-gens do not have anything to deaden vibration of body panels (although there's tar on floor under seats) nor insulation to keep remaining vibration from coming through into the cabin.


I wonder what newer 4Runners or other cars have that help make them quieter. aside from finer engines, of course.

MortonPhotographic

I just had my side panels off like that (mine's an '88 SR5) and what I found was a thin layer of spray on sound deadener from the factory--I wonder if it's an SR5 thing? I don't see it in yours Rad4Runner, but it is very little and almost hard to see in mine. Yeah, these early SUVs were pretty sparse on the sound deadening for sure.

MortonPhotographic

Oh, and I saw someone post earlier about how sound deadening needs to be stuck right to the metal to work. Now maybe I read that wrong, but that statement is only partly true.

As long as your factory tar deadening is in good shape and seriously stuck to your truck, there is absolutely no need to remove it. If it is dry, cracking and popping off--you should remove what you can.

As long as all the layers are stuck together and stuck to the metal, you are good.

You can then add more mass sound deadening over it for even more sound deadening. More mass=greater sound deadening.

Not trying to pick on anyone--just sayin!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey... someone jacked your panels, homie! hehehe....

WOW, I CAN'T WAIT to pull everything up and clean it properly....

* I had read what Morton just said, not long ago, in 'expeditionportal.com' regarding 'weatherproofing', etc., pertaining to "Spray in insulation"... This one guy SWEARS by it....

Here's my concern with ANY path I take in the back........ At times, I Camp in the Sierras in the dead of Winter(January at Hot Creek)... I LOVE the chill in combo with the hot springs... I have to give it to them, insulated on the bottom or not, they DO keep me MUCH warmer than any pick up ever did(likely in part due to the insulated top with layer of air between the layers on the topper as well?) ... Anyway, what I noticed is this; When I sleep back there, on 4" foam, directly on the carpet.... I've woken to find the underside of the foam pretty wet. Condensation had come through, attracted, no doubt, by my body heat....... Will this peel and stick stop that to some degree?

I'd like to use something in the sides as well, as the paneling only stops so much 'cold', ya know? Was thinking maybe the spray stuff might work really well for insulation/keeping the cold out/hot in.... If not, what would? I read most of what's been laid out... Just seems to be some disagreement, which is GREAT for 'getting to the nuts and bolts of the factoids', so to speak? lol..

I need to just do my carpet as clean as possible while I have it out to do some insulation/sound deadening.... My carpet padding in the front is in REALLY good shape... It's pretty much all there. I have some type of rubberized top to it as well, where the feet rest, under the dash AND under the driver and passengers feet when resting flat on the floor. I will get pics... but I'm assuming it's factory, right?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Would this kinda stuff be good under the carpeting up front above some P&S? >>>

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Auto-Int...119499&vxp=mtr

Or this......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DMT-Auto-Hea...b9bdad&vxp=mtr

For the heck of it.... thought I'd share this, LOOKS like decent quality, for the price...BUT, then again, it's Ebay, ... might come in the mail and be HIDEOUS? hahaha...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-4-Run...9d9cf2&vxp=mtr

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I did the PS on both of my runners. The 88, I did about a year and half ago and it is still holding up well. I never had any odors and I could tell it made a difference when trying to heat the truck up and holding heat. Definetly cut down on the road noise. I still need to do the doors on both trucks. With the panel off and window up, there is plenty of room to access it and cover it up. I think you will like it when you get done with it and the difference it makes.

Grego92

iTrader: (4)

Dashdesigns are high quality. I have a suede one in my camry, so different material than the one listed. Dashdesigns are also provided by Honda dealerships, that's how I found out about them. But again, I've only personally seen the suede material.

I want to get the dashtex material for my truck to replace my velour one, but haven't seen one in person yet so a little hesitant on pulling the trigger.

RAD4Runner

It's condensation from moisture evaporating from our bodies, and heavy breathing (LOL!). When that vapor touches cold metal bed, it condenses there.

P&S or similar methods is effective in reducing panel vibration by adding mass to it. On top of that, the an insulation padding help isolate remaining vibration from the cabin. For mine, I already ordered RAAMMAT's Ensolite padding.

I would also put the material in Chef's Ebay link on firewall panel under dash, and also over the drivetrain hump, where you could actually feel the heat.

Yes, to a little extent, P&S will help. However, you wanna make sure you leave no air bubbles between the stuff and the metal. I think P&S or similar method is less messy, than spray-in.

I would not put not moisture absorber like open-cell foam inside body panels. Worst is anything containing cotton (takes forever to dry).

Yeah, I washed mine in front-loading washer. Beats any detailing job.
The plastic footpads are standard I think only SR5's have it on passenger side.

I smell a little tar, but the Ensolite padding on top of the P&S on floor will take care of that.

Then, I'll put my original padding (for further noise/echo absorption) and carpet back.

So many things have to happen in parallel with the panels and deck (Window, deck lamp, and moving console switches to dash) so I'll do my doors last.

RAD4Runner

My deck happens to have this liner of 3/8-inch thick particle board wrapped in carpet (looks stock).





It weighs 20 pounds, and I don't plan on loading a dryer or washer in there so out it goes.


Virgin Deck (except from sand from carpet liner):


Next steps:
Use closed-cell foam ($18 greyish anti-fatigue floor mat at Big Lots) on top of P&S-coated metal bed for additional sound-proofing and thermal insulation. This also looks like a good source for foam.
Replace orig board with with thinner board wrapped in orig carpet (or tarpaulin if I can find good deal).