superbleeder-
When the leak started, were you getting leakage both when cold and hot, or was it only leaking when it was hot?

 

honestly, I'm not sure; I just notice the leak at the first 500 miles oil change

 

I used a Fel-Pro hg (came with the gasket set) and I sprayed it with CopperCoat hg sealant before installation. No problems here.

 

i did the head on my brother in laws '93 last weekend. needed some crush washers to complete the job. we used the rock gasket kit. if that SOAB starts leaking, to 65 lbs she goes. if that fails, to 70. and after that someone gets a good deal on craigslist.

 

Engnbldr recommends 64 ft/lbs when using the head bolts he sells with the newer style Toyota and Rock head gaskets. See: http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showth...087&page=&vc=1

I notice they have significantly more metal on top than my 1986 factory gasket.

In an e-mail he clarified, "I think I advised using 64 lbs ft on OUR new head bolts, I would stay at 58# with the stock ones or most aftermarket. This of course assumes a block in good condition."

 

Well, I did make some progress. I loosened my head bolts and re-torqued to 60 ft-lbs, and the leak got much smaller. The reality in my mind at this point though is that if its not sealing with no pressure at this torque, there's little to no chance of it sealing even at higher torque.

I decided to take the plunge and ordered one of Engnbldrs RV heads and 268c cams. I'll go by Toyota this week and pick up a set of OEM Toyota Gaskets, and hopefully get her all buttoned up next Saturday and call her good.

Anyone want to buy a rebuildable 22re head, just needs to be surfaced .

 

what's an OEM head worth rebuilt? I still have my old one, but needes a valve job, stem seals, resurfaced, the whole 9 yards

 

You could probs get around 4-500$ depending what goodies you put in it right?

 

Whatever you can get, anywhere from free to whatever a sucker will pay.

As I see it, heads as old as yours and mine in need of any obvious work are scrap. They aren't worth the money they would cost to rebuild.

How much electrolysis has occurred over the years, weakening the thinner spots? The head may pressure test fine, but that doesn't mean something isn't about to let loose. You'll pay a shop a few hundred at best to have it checked out and redone. Why bother when you can buy new for $400?

A recommended shop here wanted $329 for an exchange or to rebuild my head. Chances are they aren't super familiar with 22R heads and don't know what problem areas to look for. Why take the risk?

I'll probably eventually see what a recycling yard will pay for my old head.

 

lol, see that's what I was thinking too

 

As for my old cam, I'd give it away or maybe build a forge (can be done for pretty cheap) and make it into a small machete / brush clearing tool. I wonder how good the steel would be for that application.

 

I just want to put my 2 cents in here. I used Ted's complete engine rebuild kit when I did my 3VZE. He was the most helpful guy I've dealt with and I had no issue using the products he sells. My engine now has approx. 60,000kms on it with no problems (aside from issues with my machine shop).

Jason

 

I compared pictures of new 22R Toyota factory gaskets and the Rock gasket Ted sells. Visibly, there is practically no difference.

I suspect the key to success with either is proper installation and a little more torque than the manual wants for the older style gaskets. Bleeder's leak cleared up after snugging his bolts. He probably started with 58 ft/lbs as the manual says. Ted advises 64 ft/lbs for this style of gasket.

Here's my old factory 1986 gasket:





I didn't take pictures of my Rock gasket. Here's one from olharleyman to compare.

 

People here might hate me for this but back in the day we'd put in a tube of alumaseal for 2 bucks and plug it up until tearing apart to repair properly. I've had tremendous success with the stuff for decades. Got me off the Salt Flats in Utah and all the way to town back in the 80's. I keep it in the glove box.

Good luck and don't feel like you're alone in this. We've all been kicked to the curb doing big repairs. Like Nitze said "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger!"

 

smithoman-
I might go with a fix like that if I were in a real pickle. At this point, I've sunk way more money into this rebuild then I care to admit, and this is my "fun" car, so not having for another couple of weeks isn't going to kill me (except for emotionally, haha).

Thanks for all the follow up suggestions though, including those from the Original Posters.

 

Thought I would post some follow up as to what I found. It may not help everyone (or may not even help anyone), but it helped me.

I ended up buying a new Engnbldr RV Head and cam because... well, honestly, I wanted it. The leak was just an excuse to buy it =). After pulling the old head out I really wanted to verify what caused the leak. I went through and surface checked the block, cylinder head, etc. Everything was perfectly straight.

What I ended finding is exactly as was expected from this thread: the gasket. I ordered a Toyota OEM gasket. On the outside, the design looks almost exactly the same as the Rock Auto gasket. They have metal in the same places, and the fiberous part of the gasket looks to be of the same make, shape etc.

Where the gaskets differ is in the fit and finish. On the Toyota gasket, the metal inlays in the gasket are actually formed into the fibrous material. They actually have pockets in the regular gasket material for the metal plates to go, so out of the box, the Toyota gasket is perfectly flat.

The Rock gasket, on the other hand, have the metal just sitting on top of the gasket. This means that in order to get a good seal all the way around, you have to crush the gasket enough that the metal sinks or crushes into the regular gasket material. On my gasket torqued to 60 ft-lbs, I could tell that this had happened a little, but no where near enough to make a solid, flush surface.

Does this mean the Rock gasket won't seal, not at all. Does this mean its junk, I wouldn't say that. But I will say that from the differences between the two, it looks like you would need a lot more torque to get the Rock gasket to seal then the Toyota one, all other things being equal.

Any ways, just my findings, hopefully they help someone else.

 

Thanks, redwolf3. That's the best info I've seen to date about differences. Had I known this earlier I might have used a Toyota gasket instead.

I decided to try the Rock. My head bolts are torqued to 64 ft/lbs after working the new bolts in by using several tightening/loosening sequences. Crossing fingers.

 

FlyingBrass-
Did you put a light coating of oil on the head bolts before installing them as well. I know engnbldr recommends this, and adding oil to the bolt threads and the bolt head cap will have an affect on your torque as well. 64 ft-lbs dry is not the same as 64 ft-lbs with oil.

I am fairly confident that with enough torque, you can get the gasket to seal. And because of the way the gasket is made, once it does seal properly, it should be sealed for a long time.

As a note, I have another buddy whose a Toyota nut (and was a certified Toyota mechanic for a while). He said he normally torques his heads down to 70 ft-lbs. While I might not recommend this because I'm sure it will affect head warpage the next time you go to rebuild it, but if you are in a pickle you could do it. The general rule of thumb is: If the head bolt doesn't break when you're torquing it... it won't ever break.

 

I lightly oiled the bolt threads and the underside of the bolt heads. I'll recheck torque after the first run.

 

Back in the early 90s as a student I worked for GM helping build Luminas/Regals, every car got a dose of 3 brown pucks into the rad- you can still buy it from AC Delco. Its ground up almond shells and coats the cooling system for no leaks- I've used it and as a preventative also- if the oil isn't mixing, then the treatment may last for years or at least until your settled down enough to attack this again. I recently did the hg/chain and already had 2 gasket sets in front of me- Rock and Altrom- I went out and bought oem on some good advice. Will be retorqueing them shortly- I'm using arp- so 90ft-lbs.