So I’ve been trying to borrow a timing light forever so i can see where my 94 runner with 22re manual trans is set. And I finally gave up asking everyone I know and just bought a used older style one off ebay. I could’ve bought one and returned it but don’t feel good doing that.

Anyway the truck has been pinging with regular unleaded but goes away with premium or an added octane booster. I’m guessing whoever replaced the distributor didn’t do the timing or it came out of spec.

Anyway my question is... if the truck advances the timing automatically for higher octane fuel should I run the factory recommended regular unleaded when I’m setting the timing?

 

The factory timing spec isn't based on the octane ratings, set it to spec, you are not doing some advance it till.it pings then back it off dance.

You might want to consider your knock sensor signal health, the knock sensor should trigger the timing to retard before you can hear it.

It might be worth noting ping and timing chain noises sound very similar to me.

 

22-RE
More important is that you are in "jumpered" mode (RPMs drop), your RPMs are correctly adjusted at the correct screw.
Set it to jumpered mode, adjust rpm (use a 15 USD laser rpm meter from amaz / bay)
Set timing.

Note: you can adjust it more advanced than 5°. 8, even 10° works fine.



If you have a "misfire at over 2K":
INTERMITTENT “MISS” WHEN HOLDING THE ENGINE AT 1,500 TO 2,000 RPM

I get this one A LOT! It can be a number of different things. Once you’ve checked all of the items shown on this FAQ page, if all checks ok, maybe try this out:

There was an internal bulletin for Toyota factory technicians back in the mid 80’s about a similar issue with 22RE engines. The issue was an internal programming problem with the ECU. Since the ECU advances the timing according to engine RPM, throttle position etc., sometimes it would freak out and give it too much TOTAL advance on accel and partial throttle. It would give it 40+ degrees total advance instead of the 28 degrees (those are random numbers I pulled out of the air, not the ACTUAL numbers, just using them as an example). For a while during the time when owners of these trucks actually brought them to a dealer, one of their fixes was to install a reman ECU (that’s why you see some of the ECU’s in the 85-87 model years have a “-84” after the part number on the sticker, it means remanufactured). It didn’t always help.

One fix that was recommended in another, later year, bulletin was to set the base timing at 3 degrees instead of 5 (which would translate to 10 degrees without the ECU jumped). If that didn’t help? They recommended 2 degrees base timing. I know it sounds counter-intuitive to retard timing to improve performance, but about 50% of the time, it would solve the problem.

Even though I’m using the 85-87 model years as an example, I’ve used this method to fix the problem on trucks all the way up to 1994.

Source: https://22reperformance.com/faq-diagnostic-info

 

Tidbit:
The R in our engines stands for "Low Compression (uses 87 and below octane fuel)"

 

With high-octane (93) here in NJ, I can advance the timing as far as it can go and still get no ping at all, even under heavy load. I know, I know...there is no reason to waste $ on high octane in these low-compression motors . It is an OCD thing, Shell Ultra in everything I have from my big V-8 SUV to my 2-stroke weed wacker.

Is there any detriment to the 22RE by running high octane with the timing advanced to about 18-20 degrees if there is no ping?

 

Got it thanks!

Is there a rundown on checking the knock sensor. I think I read that it won’t show up in diagnostic codes if failing? That is showing all clear after adjusting tps to spec.

I have definitely wondered if it’s ping or timing chain rattle but since it’s only done it on low octane fuel and doesn’t do it all the time and Ive taken a look at the guide and from my best inspection it appears to be nearly new and not broken although unfortunately it’s plastic. I do believe it was replaced with the chain a few thousand miles back.

The hotter the engine the worse the ping seemed to get but again since running highest octane available, 92 here on island, there has been no pinging.

Anyway for all I know the timing is to spec but good chance the new looking distributor was replaces without setting timing.

 

will be jumpered in now that tps is adjusted to spec the motor idles down when jumpered at the diag port.

With the laser tach gauge where do you put the reflective tape? On the front of pulley or on one of the shafts?

Is this the type?

https://www.ebay.com/p/1103487955

ill check for a miss at that rpm and follow the guide! Mahalo

 

Good to know! How bout the E? Haha

 

Good question? I figure I’ll test with a gallon or two of regular after setting and if still pinging what’s a few dollars a tank and premium gas if it stops the ping?

i guess my timing might be retarded if it’s pinging on regular and the higher octane and ecu timing adjustment to a higher degree makes it stop?

 

Electronic fuel injection. The carbed 22r...

I am thinking, if we have low compression engines anyhow, doesn't it make sense to use a lower octane fuel?


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

Higher octane ratings correlate to higher activation energies: the amount of applied energy required to initiate combustion. Since higher octane fuels have higher activation energy requirements, it is less likely that a given compression will cause uncontrolled ignition, otherwise known as autoignition or detonation.

Because octane is a measured and/or calculated rating of the fuel's ability to resist autoignition, the higher the octane of the fuel, the harder that fuel is to ignite and the more heat is required to ignite it. The result is that a hotter ignition spark is required for ignition. Creating a hotter spark requires more energy from the ignition system, which in turn increases the parasitic electrical load on the engine. The spark also must begin earlier in order to generate sufficient heat at the proper time for precise ignition. As octane, ignition spark energy, and the need for precise timing increase, the engine becomes more difficult to "tune" and keep "in tune". The resulting sub-optimal spark energy and timing can cause major engine problems, from a simple "miss" to uncontrolled detonation and catastrophic engine failure.

The other rarely-discussed reality with high-octane fuels associated with "high performance" is that as octane increases, the specific gravity and energy content of the fuel per unit of weight are reduced. The net result is that to make a given amount of power, more high-octane fuel must be burned in the engine. Lighter and "thinner" fuel also has a lower specific heat, so the practice of running an engine "rich" to use excess fuel to aid in cooling requires richer and richer mixtures as octane increases.

Higher-octane, lower-energy-dense "thinner" fuels often contain alcohol compounds incompatible with the stock fuel system components, which also makes them hygroscopic. They also evaporate away much more easily than heavier, lower-octane fuel which leads to more accumulated contaminants in the fuel system. Its typically the hydrochloric acids that form due to that water[citation needed] and the compounds in the fuel that have the most detrimental effects on the engine fuel system components, as such acids corrode many metals used in gasoline fuel systems.

During the compression stroke of an internal combustion engine, the temperature of the air-fuel mix rises as it is compressed, in accordance with the ideal gas law. Higher compression ratios necessarily add parasitic load to the engine, and are only necessary if the engine is being specifically designed to run on high-octane fuel. Aircraft engines run at relatively low speeds and are "undersquare". They run best on lower-octane, slower-burning fuels that require less heat and a lower compression ratio for optimum vaporization and uniform fuel-air mixing, with the ignition spark coming as late as possible in order to extend the production of cylinder pressure and torque as far down the power stroke as possible.

 

Can't see a pic under that link. I have this one: 10 bucks: https://www.ebay.com/p/13007195333?iid=153604195970

Place the tape wherever you want a rotation is a rotation. I placed it in the AC pulley, as I don't currently have an AC in there

 

You need to count crankshaft rotations, so on the crankshaft pulley is a good place, I'm not sure the ac pully is the same size as the balancer. If the pulley isn't the same size it's going to have an error in the RPM reading.

 

So the ac pully (on the crankshaft) does more revolutions per revolution than the balancer?

 

So my vintage Heathkit Timing gun from ebay $20 usd came today. I set the timing to 5 degrees as per recommendations following all guidelines and WOW there is a noticeable improvement in power throughout the speed range.

Not to mention the huge improvement in handling gained as well!

I’m all about checking and setting timing and telling everyone I know now!

All jokes aside... this did seem to make quite a difference in how my truck runs. It was sitting at way past 12deg maybe 20 plus before I jumpered it and after jumpering it maybe 14. When I retarded the timing back to 5 deg the idle got real low. Once I locked the distributor in and double checked for 5’ I pulled the jumper and brought the idle back up to 750.

Seriously gained some noticeable power in all gears and was even cruising a hill in 4th that I typically pull in third.

I put some regular octane in her and did same hills and still no ping lets see how the week goes.

Today before adjusting it was pinging even with the higher octane when driving home in the heat of the afternoon.

Will do another timing check once I get the digital laser tachometer in but for now just using the trucks tach to adjust made big improvements.

Mahalos to everyone thats helped out!

 

The AC's groove on (maybe that's in?) the crankshaft -pulley, is very different than the AC pulley as I said the might be different sizes..

We have a standardized nomenclature for this very reason.

 

So the AC pulley is always on the AC, and the crankshaft pulley has an AC "groove". Got it.

Since I said I removed the AC, I thought it was clear that I meant the "groove" or "pulley" that remains and it has to be the crankshaft one. Of course you should never use the pulley on the accessories themselves, as you are correct: they usually have a different size pulley meaning the ratio is going to be wrong.
But since we are joking around anyhow: it does not matter what groove you use as long as it's on the crankshaft. :flipoff2: