replace CV axle & slight upgrade for IFS maintenance
08-30-2010, 10:08 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scope103 Thank you soooo much for your info. I was stuck baffled at how I was going to remove the axle. Ended up searching on yotatech and came upon your post. I ended up putting my wheel back on and lifting the other side to help compress the suspension enough to straighten out the axle. I BARELLLY had enough space to pull it out and put in a new one. I actually didn't have enough space but with a lot of maneuvering and shoving the axle back in along with pressing up against the differential, I was able to scrape it in. Thanks again for the advice. Truly saved me from a bind right now.
08-31-2010, 06:22 AM
#23
Banned
Something i have learned about doing cv axles that helps.
Air tools. Big ass impact wrench, looong extension, and a swivel socket to the nuts on the studs.
to do that you dont even need to hit the brakes.
I had never worked on anything other than my motor, and i changed both axles and swapped to manual hubs in like two and a half hours.
If i was to do it next time i would pound out the studs, it doesnt seem like it would really matter in the shop, but it would be nice for a trail repair.
Air tools. Big ass impact wrench, looong extension, and a swivel socket to the nuts on the studs.
to do that you dont even need to hit the brakes.
I had never worked on anything other than my motor, and i changed both axles and swapped to manual hubs in like two and a half hours.
If i was to do it next time i would pound out the studs, it doesnt seem like it would really matter in the shop, but it would be nice for a trail repair.
09-01-2010, 07:13 AM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm in the middle of this now. I can't seem to get the bolts loose from the axle shaft to the diff housing. I've used my impact on low to vibrate it, liquid wrench, heat, impact on max, breaker bar and wrench etc. I've damn near rocked the 4Runner off the jack stands at this point. Nothing. I'm guessing/hoping they arn't reverse thread. I'm about to angle grind them off, drive them out and replace. Ideas?
09-01-2010, 07:24 AM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm in the middle of this now. I can't seem to get the bolts loose from the axle shaft to the diff housing. I've used my impact on low to vibrate it, liquid wrench, heat, impact on max, breaker bar and wrench etc. I've damn near rocked the 4Runner off the jack stands at this point. Nothing. I'm guessing/hoping they arn't reverse thread. I'm about to angle grind them off, drive them out and replace. Ideas?
09-01-2010, 07:27 AM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, and for what it's worth...I didn't know the "jack up the opposite side" trick, so I removed the lower ball joint. However - it's way easier to remove the 4 bolts that hold the ball joint to the hub assy than to separate the ball joint itself, even with a picklefork.
09-01-2010, 08:13 AM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Nashville TN. I can help you if you're close BUT NOBODY CAN HELP YOU IF YOU DON'T FILL YOUR LOCATION IN!
Posts: 1,818
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
I tired to get a tripod over the studs and pushed the grease cap out of the back of a tripod with the joint...
Just made the job worse...
The inner joint is the tripod, the outer is a Birfield or "CV" joint.
If I ever do it again, the studs will come out.
Then I'll try and tap the flange so I can just bolt the tripod to the drive flange.
Most "quick change" setups are just a nut and bolt where the splined studs used to be...
My idea is just to bolt the tripod to the drive flange using no nuts
Just made the job worse...
The inner joint is the tripod, the outer is a Birfield or "CV" joint.
If I ever do it again, the studs will come out.
Then I'll try and tap the flange so I can just bolt the tripod to the drive flange.
Most "quick change" setups are just a nut and bolt where the splined studs used to be...
My idea is just to bolt the tripod to the drive flange using no nuts
Last edited by tried4x2signN; 09-01-2010 at 08:17 AM.
09-01-2010, 09:13 AM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco East Bay
Posts: 8,254
Likes: 0
Received 822 Likes
on
649 Posts
Are you sure you want to mess with hardware store bolts?
You know, Toyota has been designing pickup trucks for some time. Is it possible that they know what they're doing?
Some folks hadn't figured out how to remove the CV axles without removing the studs or the ball joints or whatever, and I admire their determination to finish the job. And we know that none of this was necessary, because lots of us on this forum replace the CV axles in the way the engineers obviously intended.
Each to his own. But some on this forum recommend removing the studs anyway, because it will be "easier" to remove the CV axle "next time." To replace the studs pressed into the hub, I guess they use whatever hardware-store bolt they can find that will fit through the splined hole in the hub. Is that a good idea?
The purpose of those studs appears to be to prevent the differential hub from rotating against the back of the CV axle. When the studs are rigidly attached to the hub, and make a precision fit into the CV axle, there isn't much room to move. The torque on the nuts on the studs isn't what keeps it from turning. When you replace the studs with bolts, they no longer fit too well into the splined hole, and can move a little. Also, they aren't the same diameter as the studs, so they move a little in the CV axle too. Yeah, I know you snugged those nuts down real good, but that isn't going to do much against all the torque need to drive the front axles. I can't say that I've actually seen it, but my guess is that the hubs with the missing studs are twisting back and forth a little each time the wheel catches. And sooner or later that will damage that joint.
Of course, some of those who recommend removing the studs argue that it is to make it easier to do a "trail repair." Wow. I guess if you push the truck so hard that you expect to break CV axles on the trail, then wearing out the connection to the differential is the least of your problems! In that case, well, knock yourself out.
But for me, I just want to be able to drive in snow at highway speeds and not have the front end come apart. And if I can figure out how the engineers planned for me to service the truck, I'll try that first.
Just one man's opinion.
Some folks hadn't figured out how to remove the CV axles without removing the studs or the ball joints or whatever, and I admire their determination to finish the job. And we know that none of this was necessary, because lots of us on this forum replace the CV axles in the way the engineers obviously intended.
Each to his own. But some on this forum recommend removing the studs anyway, because it will be "easier" to remove the CV axle "next time." To replace the studs pressed into the hub, I guess they use whatever hardware-store bolt they can find that will fit through the splined hole in the hub. Is that a good idea?
The purpose of those studs appears to be to prevent the differential hub from rotating against the back of the CV axle. When the studs are rigidly attached to the hub, and make a precision fit into the CV axle, there isn't much room to move. The torque on the nuts on the studs isn't what keeps it from turning. When you replace the studs with bolts, they no longer fit too well into the splined hole, and can move a little. Also, they aren't the same diameter as the studs, so they move a little in the CV axle too. Yeah, I know you snugged those nuts down real good, but that isn't going to do much against all the torque need to drive the front axles. I can't say that I've actually seen it, but my guess is that the hubs with the missing studs are twisting back and forth a little each time the wheel catches. And sooner or later that will damage that joint.
Of course, some of those who recommend removing the studs argue that it is to make it easier to do a "trail repair." Wow. I guess if you push the truck so hard that you expect to break CV axles on the trail, then wearing out the connection to the differential is the least of your problems! In that case, well, knock yourself out.
But for me, I just want to be able to drive in snow at highway speeds and not have the front end come apart. And if I can figure out how the engineers planned for me to service the truck, I'll try that first.
Just one man's opinion.
09-01-2010, 09:36 AM
#30
Registered User
show me one person on here or pirate that has severed those studs or done any other damage to that joint by doing the mod to the cv flange bolts. enough said. I would be more inclined to think that the hubs themselves or the actual CV joint would break before anything happened to those bolts or joint.
Although I would agree that I would not use anything lower than a class 8 or 10.9 (not grade 8 big difference) and not your standard hardware store bolt.
as far as engineering goes, I don't think that Toyota meant for any of these trucks to run 33's, 35's, 38's, 40's, 44's on them as well. nor 4" bracket lifts, 3" body lifts etc etc. SO by the looks of your sig and your previous comment, your pretty much against doing anything your truck than general maintenance since you have an all stock truck.
P.S. when you replace anything on your truck do you go to the dealership each and every time for say oil filters, brake pads, rotors, spark plugs, plug wires, tie rod ends, etc etc?
Although I would agree that I would not use anything lower than a class 8 or 10.9 (not grade 8 big difference) and not your standard hardware store bolt.
as far as engineering goes, I don't think that Toyota meant for any of these trucks to run 33's, 35's, 38's, 40's, 44's on them as well. nor 4" bracket lifts, 3" body lifts etc etc. SO by the looks of your sig and your previous comment, your pretty much against doing anything your truck than general maintenance since you have an all stock truck.
P.S. when you replace anything on your truck do you go to the dealership each and every time for say oil filters, brake pads, rotors, spark plugs, plug wires, tie rod ends, etc etc?
Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 09-01-2010 at 09:40 AM.
09-01-2010, 11:54 AM
#31
We also don't give enough credit to the forces generated by properly installed hardware.
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...ners/index.asp
The flange bolts are roughly 3/8", correct? Even if its only grade 5, torqued to 75% of proof stress (standard kind of torque spec for reusable hardware), then each bolt is still generating about 7500 lb of clamping.
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...ners/index.asp
The flange bolts are roughly 3/8", correct? Even if its only grade 5, torqued to 75% of proof stress (standard kind of torque spec for reusable hardware), then each bolt is still generating about 7500 lb of clamping.
09-02-2010, 11:48 AM
#33
Contributing Member
You know, Toyota has been designing pickup trucks for some time. Is it possible that they know what they're doing?
Some folks hadn't figured out how to remove the CV axles without removing the studs or the ball joints or whatever, and I admire their determination to finish the job. And we know that none of this was necessary, because lots of us on this forum replace the CV axles in the way the engineers obviously intended.
Each to his own. But some on this forum recommend removing the studs anyway, because it will be "easier" to remove the CV axle "next time." To replace the studs pressed into the hub, I guess they use whatever hardware-store bolt they can find that will fit through the splined hole in the hub. Is that a good idea?
The purpose of those studs appears to be to prevent the differential hub from rotating against the back of the CV axle. When the studs are rigidly attached to the hub, and make a precision fit into the CV axle, there isn't much room to move. The torque on the nuts on the studs isn't what keeps it from turning. When you replace the studs with bolts, they no longer fit too well into the splined hole, and can move a little. Also, they aren't the same diameter as the studs, so they move a little in the CV axle too. Yeah, I know you snugged those nuts down real good, but that isn't going to do much against all the torque need to drive the front axles. I can't say that I've actually seen it, but my guess is that the hubs with the missing studs are twisting back and forth a little each time the wheel catches. And sooner or later that will damage that joint.
Of course, some of those who recommend removing the studs argue that it is to make it easier to do a "trail repair." Wow. I guess if you push the truck so hard that you expect to break CV axles on the trail, then wearing out the connection to the differential is the least of your problems! In that case, well, knock yourself out.
But for me, I just want to be able to drive in snow at highway speeds and not have the front end come apart. And if I can figure out how the engineers planned for me to service the truck, I'll try that first.
Just one man's opinion.
Some folks hadn't figured out how to remove the CV axles without removing the studs or the ball joints or whatever, and I admire their determination to finish the job. And we know that none of this was necessary, because lots of us on this forum replace the CV axles in the way the engineers obviously intended.
Each to his own. But some on this forum recommend removing the studs anyway, because it will be "easier" to remove the CV axle "next time." To replace the studs pressed into the hub, I guess they use whatever hardware-store bolt they can find that will fit through the splined hole in the hub. Is that a good idea?
The purpose of those studs appears to be to prevent the differential hub from rotating against the back of the CV axle. When the studs are rigidly attached to the hub, and make a precision fit into the CV axle, there isn't much room to move. The torque on the nuts on the studs isn't what keeps it from turning. When you replace the studs with bolts, they no longer fit too well into the splined hole, and can move a little. Also, they aren't the same diameter as the studs, so they move a little in the CV axle too. Yeah, I know you snugged those nuts down real good, but that isn't going to do much against all the torque need to drive the front axles. I can't say that I've actually seen it, but my guess is that the hubs with the missing studs are twisting back and forth a little each time the wheel catches. And sooner or later that will damage that joint.
Of course, some of those who recommend removing the studs argue that it is to make it easier to do a "trail repair." Wow. I guess if you push the truck so hard that you expect to break CV axles on the trail, then wearing out the connection to the differential is the least of your problems! In that case, well, knock yourself out.
But for me, I just want to be able to drive in snow at highway speeds and not have the front end come apart. And if I can figure out how the engineers planned for me to service the truck, I'll try that first.
Just one man's opinion.
In response, the CV axles are the weak point in the system. I replaced those studs with larger, hardened bolts, which gives that area MORE strength than the stock studs.
Yes its worth removing those. And running the truck off road at all is enough to bust axles. Even still, neither one of those things have been an issue for me, the studs or the axles. I have dual transfer cases, ARB air lockers front and rear, 4.88 gearing, and have been running 33s/35's.
Whats the point of having a modified 4wd if it never goes offroad? My CV's and bolts have held up to this for quite some time:
09-02-2010, 08:48 PM
#34
Say what?
Umm, how 'bout me and the several many other people on here, and elsewhere, that REALLY HAS happened to? That's who!
Sheer and utter nonsense! As if!
Yeah, the front end is gonna come right apart, no problem. Of course it would. Gee, I really should have thought about that first. Before I ground the splines off my studs, turning them into stock strength bolts.
Should I be worried?
PUHLEASE!!!! NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!!
x2 and then some!
Umm, how 'bout me and the several many other people on here, and elsewhere, that REALLY HAS happened to? That's who!
You know, Toyota has been designing pickup trucks for some time. Is it possible that they know what they're doing?
Blah blah blah...
Yadda yadda yadda...
But for me, I just want to be able to drive in snow at highway speeds and not have the front end come apart. And if I can figure out how the engineers planned for me to service the truck, I'll try that first.
Just one man's opinion.
Blah blah blah...
Yadda yadda yadda...
But for me, I just want to be able to drive in snow at highway speeds and not have the front end come apart. And if I can figure out how the engineers planned for me to service the truck, I'll try that first.
Just one man's opinion.
Sheer and utter nonsense! As if!
Yeah, the front end is gonna come right apart, no problem. Of course it would. Gee, I really should have thought about that first. Before I ground the splines off my studs, turning them into stock strength bolts.
Should I be worried?
PUHLEASE!!!! NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!!
x2 and then some!
09-02-2010, 09:13 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Nashville TN. I can help you if you're close BUT NOBODY CAN HELP YOU IF YOU DON'T FILL YOUR LOCATION IN!
Posts: 1,818
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
I was thinking of that pic too, but wasn't that from a guy with 5:71's and 38's?
09-03-2010, 03:32 AM
#38
Registered User
perfect example of how the parts themselves are weaker that the bolts that hold them together. as I had said in my post above. Thanks MudHippy.
P.S. In that photo are your bolts already ground down? Or did you do it after that carnage?
Thanks MudHippy. P.S. In that photo are your bolts already ground down? Or did you do it after that carnage?
09-03-2010, 01:15 PM
#39
You can find a used 4.30 front end from an 86-88 4cyl. 4x4 with an automatic, or from a 92-95 V6 4x4 with or without ADD. Either will get you the gears atleast, if your not wanting to swap out the entire axle. Then you'll just need to set them up in yours.
http://Car-Part.com
I'm planning on swapping out my rear 4cyl. 3rd for a 92-95 V6 3rd with matching gears some time in the near future. I'd have done it already, but I just found out about 4.30's being available in the 92-95's. So I wasn't aware that used ones existed. I thought I was going to have to set the ones I've got up myself in the V6 3rd I still have from when I had the stock 4.10's still in there. Which I'd read was possible, but required some extra shimming to the pinion, or something to that effect.
Yes. I'd decided that knocking them out and hammering them back in everytime was getting old, as well as damaging their heads and threads. So much easier to just grind off the splines and call 'em bolts. Cheaper than buying brand new nuts and bolts for it too.
Just for s's & g's, let me give you guys my version of why they(Toyota)used studs for that application instead of bolts. And this theory holds true for many instances where a stud(s) is used. It's for the added safety of having something there to hold the part(s) on if the nut(s) should come off accidentaly. Meaning it's SUPPOSED to be hard to get the part(s) off with the stud(s) in the way. That way when you make it home you still have that part(s) with you, and then only need to replace the nut(s). Instead of the part(s) and the nut(s). As well as in many instances retaining, some if not all of, the functionality of said part(s) for the ride home. Make sense?
So if that were true, I would think a little loctite on the threads of the nuts/bolts would provide you that same sense of security. But I've never bothered to for those. I guess I like living life "on the edge". Not really. I just don't see the need to(never had one even come a tad bit loose on me), and it would be counter-productive in making them easier to remove. Which was my entire point in altering their design to begin with.
Last edited by MudHippy; 09-04-2010 at 04:20 PM.
09-08-2010, 07:47 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HELP!!!
So previously, I replaced my passenger side axle (half shaft) using scope's suggested route. Worked great and helped me out of a bind. I decided to do the driver's side today. I used the same method and I removed most of the half shaft but there just isn't enough clearance to get it past the bolts. (sorry to let you down scope) Has anyone else run into this problem?
Now it is stuck there and I'm currently researching my options. I've looked into removing the ball joints but it appears to be more difficult than people present it to be (difficult nuts and the need for special tools). Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I'm looking for the quickest and easiest route. As you can tell, I'm quite inexperienced.
How do you go about removing the studs? Do you hammer them out or do you screw them out? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!
So previously, I replaced my passenger side axle (half shaft) using scope's suggested route. Worked great and helped me out of a bind. I decided to do the driver's side today. I used the same method and I removed most of the half shaft but there just isn't enough clearance to get it past the bolts. (sorry to let you down scope) Has anyone else run into this problem?
Now it is stuck there and I'm currently researching my options. I've looked into removing the ball joints but it appears to be more difficult than people present it to be (difficult nuts and the need for special tools). Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I'm looking for the quickest and easiest route. As you can tell, I'm quite inexperienced.
How do you go about removing the studs? Do you hammer them out or do you screw them out? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!
