wilshire

Yesterday I bought a used 22RE that I plan on rebuilding. I've been searching the forums, but still have some questions.

Background on this engine is that it has 170k miles on it, and the previous owner said it developed a rod knock shortly before being pulled, but otherwise ran strong.

I am fairly new to working on my own vehicles, but mechanically apt, patient, and willing/able to take my time on this. I don't need a new engine right away, but I would like to gain some experience/skill and have a solid engine for my truck when I'm done.

1. Machine shop work - Mainly what I'd like to know is, what do I need to have them do, and what can I do myself? What's required, what's optional, and what's really not worth it?

If the bores are out of spec, I need them re-bored, and if the crankshaft isn't right, it needs to have the journals ground, yes? Can I check this? Seems like having the guy I'd be paying to do the work tell me if I really need it done is a conflict of interest.

2. Pistons/Bores - I've read that the lower end on a 22RE is pretty tough and that it's unusual that one would need to be re-bored. Assuming mine doesn't, do I just hone and re-ring?

If it does need to be re-bored, when am I buying pistons? I've read that you buy pistons *after* the machine shop is done re-boring, so you know how much oversize you need. I've also read that you should have the pistons in hand before boring is done, so that a really good fit can be achieved. Both make sense, but are contradictory...

3. Likewise, if the crankshaft is fine, can I just use normal sized bearings? Does the machine shop need to machine the bearings to get the fit just right?

3. Hot tanking - Do they do this anymore or is it some sort of 'shot oven'?

4. The head - Can I rebuild this myself? Is it worth it?

5. How much should i have the motor disassembled before bringing it to the machine shop?

6. $$$ - How much can I expect to pay?

iamsuperbleeder

ah yes, I am going to pick my 22re block up from the machine shop tomorrow morning


To me, you can do things either way, depending on the motor's history IMO... I think it really depends on the reason for the rebuild. For example, I would consider taking the block to a machine shop if it ran WAY hot in the past, for 2 reasons, A) that'll typically warp the head-mating surface which they can ACCURATELY measure for, and B) it can cause the cylinder bored to become out of round, again which they can ACCURATELY measure for.

NOW, if it's getting rebuild because of maybe just a slight rod knock, or a little oil blow-by, there should be very little machining needed. In many cases, all you need to do is get a honer to fit a drill, learn the proper technique, and re-hone the cylinders yourself!

BUT, I would still HIGHLY reccomend taking it to a shop with the proper tools and measuring devices. They'll usually give the block, crank, and rods a quick once-over for cheap. Doesn't always mean they'll find something, BUT, if ther do, they'll be more than happy to tell you, lol. DEFINiTELY at least bring them the crank and rods, even if you're doing the block yourself. You will want them to put a good eye on the crank jurnals, and the large end of the rods. I almost didn't bring the shop my rods, but I did, and they told me that after 296k miles, the large end had a sligh "egg" shap too it; I would have never know



Yes, if you just need a re-hone, then a re-ring is all that you would have to do, even reusing the original pistons after a quick cleanup WITH A NYLON BRUSH, NOT A WIRE BRUSH... wire brushes will kill the surface of them

On my 22re, even after 296k miles, my cylinder walls look fairly good; no scoring to speak of, and were smooth as glass... problem with that is that it causes a lot of blow-by and compression loss in that situation; the crosshatch in the honing is the ket to oil retention and compression

You DEFINATELY want to have your pistons IN HAND if you take your block to a machinist to be worked on. Most will REFUSE to bore the block without the pistons in front of them to measure for refference.

I mentioned above that you SHOULD take the crank to have it looked at my a shop; you can't REALLY judge a crank by saying "the jurnels look fine"; I mean, sure they may not have any deep groves in them, but that's not to say they haven't worn a bit. The shop can measre for that and tell you the info you need to know to get your new bearings by comparing them to what stock measurements should be.

You know you listed #3 twice?

Oh yes, they most certainly do; I had mine hot tanked

Most shops will probably recommend it, and if not at least clean your block thoroughly before taking it to them, cause they probably will not put a nasty dirty motor on their expensive and precise boring machines... the last thing you need is a couple granuals of sand lodging itself into a cank jurnel and cause a main bearing failure later on down the road

With some of the deals you can get on rebuild heads, sometimes it benifets just to get a whole new one, complete and ready to bolt on

To rebuild it the RIGHT way, you'll need a few special tools, and a good know-how on them (valve spring comressors, spring compresssion messurer, and you'll need to know the procces for a few things like valve lapping and so on...)

Also to note, the stock 22re cyl head leaves much to be desired... with my rebuild, I'm simply replacing it with a BRAND NEW head with oversized valves and springs with a stiffer spring rate, which will lead to more air flow, which leads to and increase in power, which we all know the 22re lacks

It would benefit you to take EVERYTING off of it, accept for the top two head alignment dowels, and the freeze plugs. The dowels, the shop will remove before decking the block, and the freeze plugs they will remove as well, and put new ones in if you want (uness you tell them not to, lol)

Bare block makes it easier for them, which ultimately makes it easier on your wallet Not to mention, they'll probably remove anything in their way, and you always run the CHANCE of losing something if that happens

Let me tell you what I had done, and how much is cost. Although I'm not sure off the top of my head what each individual service cost me, here's the list:


Block:

hot-tanked
decked
bored (30 over)
honed
main line bore measured (checked out good)
brass freeze plugs installed


Crank:

cleaned
measured
polished (I believe I'm going to get away with stock sized bearings, after 296k miles )


Rods:

cleaned
measure; large end found out of round, so they were all 4 honed
wrist pin bushings honed to fit pins (I pressed the bushings into the rods myself; easily done with a bench-top vice)



I also supplied my pistons to measure for the bore obviously, and I supplied my own brass freeze plugs


all together, I'm handing them $370 to get my stuff back tomorrow; pricy, but done RIGHT

mojoman

Bleeder, consider yourself lucky. I just picked up my block today,
hot tanked
bored .20 over
honed
decked
freeze plugs installed

Rods
wrist pin bushings installed
honed for wrist pins
large end honed

flywheel resurfaced

Total $671 canadian

iamsuperbleeder

aw shoot, I gotta have the flywheel resurfaced yet

I'll take it to the shop we take them to for my shop at work



WHOA, that's just a hair over $600 USD! wth man?

abecedarian

Great 411, bleeder. You covered nearly everything.

iamsuperbleeder

thanks!

I try

TOYOTA 1

x2 on the good info bleeder.

abecedarian

Most of that depends on your ability, your budget and your goals, such as more power, etc.Yes and yes. If the bores' taper is excessive or the bores are out of round you will need to have the cylinders bored. How much of an overbore will depend on how much out of round or tapered they are. Also, if one cylinder is out of spec, you should have all of them machined to the same bore. This ensures each cylinder produces approximately the same power and saves some money since you don't have to order one odd-sized piston.

To check the cylinder bore, out-of-round and taper as well as accurately determine the crank journals' condition you would need to have telescoping gauges and several micrometers. Honestly, if you don't already own them, it would cost more to buy them than it would to have the shop check the measurements. A respectable shop would allow you to view the measurements.Assuming that the taper is acceptable, then yes, you could just hone it and install new rings. However, honing will increase the bore diameter a bit and depending on the cylinders' taper and such, excessive honing could increase the bore enough to make it better to overbore and install oversized pistons. What I mean is... imagine the taper on one cylinder is slight, maybe .005 at the top and .001 at the bottom of the stroke but honing takes the top to .008. After honing, you're only .002 from the next larger piston. That means that after breaking in, you might actually need a larger piston and matching rings in that cylinder.Like I mentioned above, honing also increases the bore size. So a good shop will bore and hone, in that order, in order to reach the target piston size. Meaning basically they will bore enough to clear up the imperfections and then hone to the appropriate piston size. Make sense?
If you require .007" overbore to get round again, and honing takes .003" to be able to fit .010 over pistons, you're fine. However, if they need .011 to clean up the cylinders and honing requires .003", that means you end up .014" over... large for .010 over pistons and too small for .020" over pistons.
So maybe that clears up the confusion. Essentially you either bore to fit the pistons, or buy the pistons to fit the bore. Since pistons are typically availabe in over-sizes based on hundreths of an inch, the bore does depend on the desired piston but what piston you need depends on the size of the bore. A circular reference of sorts but with some forethought is handled nicely.No machine shop will machine bearings. Bearings are ordered to fit the journal, not the other way around.Yes, it's still done. They also shot-peen or glass-bead certain parts to clean them and/or help strengthen them.
Just make sure they don't hot-tank the head.Do you have the tools, etc, to cut valve seats, remove valve springs, lap (3 or 5 angle) the valves and seats?
Like mentioned, you can buy a new casting with oversized valves, etc, ready to install for a few bills.
One thing to double check is the rocker arm shafts and rocker arm bushings. They do wear out and from what I can tell are one of the most often overlooked parts during a rebuild. Nothing is more annoying than having a rebuilt engine that STILL rattles even after everything is adjusted. 22RE's didn't rattle when new so why should one rattle after rebuilding it?I would disassemble everything but mark all the parts and keep things together. Keep the rod bearings with the rods, etc. The shop may want to mic the crank journals and check main bearing clearances. If it's assembled, they will charge you to disassemble. If you have the parts loose, but available and organized, they shouldn't charge you as much, if anything.I can't answer that with any realistic answer since a lot depends on measurements, whether old parts can be reused, etc. I would feel safe though saying you should expect at least 2000 to properly rebuild the engine with new, quality parts installed by others. If you install the parts, then you should be able to reduce that by at least 300. If you can re-use the pistons, take another 150 off.
I may be off a few bills in my estimates though so don't chap me if I'm wrong. iamsuperbleeder gave a lot of information, but it was based on his experience. I am trying to add to his information without taking anything away from it.

olharleyman

my 22re machine shop bill

hot tanked
deck the block and timing cover area
bore 20 over
align bored
shot penned the rods
and long block it for me $450

TOYOTA 1

my bill.

hot tanked block.
bored .040"
rods cleaned/checked.
new bushings installed in the rods
checked linbore on everything
hung pistons on the rods.
freez plugs intalled
head sufaced.
valve's ground(a few new)
new seats and stem seals.
crank cleaned and polished.

$400

bennett600

i've been reading around and everybody going .20 on the bore with going bigger valves and all the good stuff on a 22re what are yall doing for the fuel system if anything? i cant find anything on if i need to have the computer reprogrammed or different injectors or what or will the stock be good enuff never done a efi before so if yall could help it would be much apreciated

olharleyman

mine is stock just sent the injectors to witchhunter for a cleaning nothing else and works fine with the Pro Street Head from L.C.E. and 268 cam from engnbldr

bennett600

cool thanks

sam333

You have to trust someone sometime. Talk to the shop and tell them what you want,( a like new engine or your just trying to get by ect...) and ask them what they want you to do to make the job go easier. Go with a shop that has a good rep not just because its cheap.

All shops want to know what type/ size and brand pistons you want to use before they do any machining( all manufacturers list the clearences needed for thier pistons and they are all different).