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86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

No start HELP!

Old 03-19-2019, 07:25 AM
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No start HELP!

Ok so I know there are 10000000000 no start threads and believe me when I tell you I have but a pretty good dent in them. But i still cant get this thing to start.

the time line
-Running perfect until March 4th when it started to get hot I pulled over and found that the head gasket had gone, water in the oil.
-Pulled the head off
  • marked the timing chain with paint pen as well as 3 zip ties to hold the chain to the sprocket
  • marked the distro for reinstallation
-Purchased everything I would need for a head gasket change
-Sent the head to the machine shop ​​​​​​
  • Head was resurfaced
  • Pressure checked, exhaust valves were good but the intakes were lolw on the vacuum test so i had the intake valves redone.
-Ultrasonic cleaned and tested the injectors
- Received the head back and proceeded to reinstall everything
-reinstall wen pretty smooth other than I forgot to backout the valves before torquing the head bolts. backed out valves retorqued head and did a "cold valve adjustment" with the LCE instructions .007 on the intake side and .011 on the exhaust side.
-Hooked up all my vacuum lines.....err all the ones that were hooked up to begin with.....The previous owner did a terrible EGR delete and so Ive never really been sure if the vacuum system is right but it ran with the current configuration so I assume it should again

Problem:
Exactly as the title says it will crank and crank but will not start doesn't even sputter. I'm getting fuel, if I loosen the cold start injector and crank i can see fuel coming from the bleed screw, is this a good way of determining I have fuel? I have spark tested all spark plugs and distro using a crank/bump button. timing is set, I have triple checked this but to be clear with the #1 at TDC the distro is pointed directly at the #1 cylinder and when cranked with a button and timing light it is dead on 0* mark.

I am looking for any help I will double check anything yall bring up. This is my DD and I really need it running for work, Im borrowing my father in laws truck right now which is killing me hahaha. I have included some pictures of my vacuum setup. like i said the PO did a backyard egr delete so im not sure if things are right and a factory vacuum diagram does't really help me. On top of that I put up a picture of a throttle body, the two port circled never had anything hooked to them, should they? I would assume the answer is yes but again they didn't when the truck was running fine.... Thanks for any help





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Old 03-19-2019, 11:33 AM
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Your vacuum hoses are way monkied with. You need to follow the diagram and just ignore (cap off) the parts you don't have. Which appears to be the evap and EGR system.

The diaphragm on the throttle should have a filter on the end.

The second one is part of the cold idle system if I'm seeing that correctly. The exploded parts diagram will show you for certain and where it routes to.

There is no "bleed screw" on your coldstart injector that's the banjo bolt if you're talking about what I think you are, and those crush washers need replaced anytime you loosen that sort of fitting. It's a big fire hazard, remember it's not just your vehicle and self in danger here but fellow drivers and first responder's!

You should be able to here the fuel pump run with the diagnostics jumper in place powering the pump. If you need to go further than this you can plumb in a clear hose to the return port off of the fuel pressure regulator.

You are aware the fuel pump doesn't run unless the engine is running or the key is in the start position providing power to the STA signal for the circuit opening relay (COR runs the fuel pump)?
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:59 AM
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I will run down the vacuum system again. I have a low res picture as the under hood one is gone so its hard to follow every hose.

yeh sorry i was talking about the banjo bolt and i did replace the copper crush washers for sure when i took it off.

Just downloaded an 85' 22re FSM I couldn't find a good 87 one I'm hoping there are enough similarities to troubleshoot this so i will be testing the fuel pump and injectors again today.

I was not aware the fuel pump didn't run unless running or started on previous vehicles you could hear the fuel pump kick on when you turned the key to ACC position i figured this one was just quiet. Like I said when i cranked it with the cold start loose i did have wetness around it.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:05 PM
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I hate to ask but is the distributor hooked up? (been there, done that forgot to plug in green connector) What year is your truck, 1987? I have 1988 FSM that might be close.
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Old 03-19-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TrafficTechII View Post
I hate to ask but is the distributor hooked up? (been there, done that forgot to plug in green connector) What year is your truck, 1987? I have 1988 FSM that might be close.

​​​​​​yes sir lol I double checked all connectors but I appriciate it. Yeh my runner is an 87
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:57 PM
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Theoretically IF it's getting fuel in the right place at the right time it should run... maybe not very well, but run... so if it's getting fuel... it's either not getting it in the right place or at the right time... or both.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 87-4runner View Post
Theoretically IF it's getting fuel in the right place at the right time it should run... maybe not very well, but run... so if it's getting fuel... it's either not getting it in the right place or at the right time... or both.
​​​​​​that's not how this system works, it's not direct injection, the injectors are batch fired so there is always fuel in the intake runners if the ECU is firing the injectors.

Aside from the mangled vacuum and air intake.. If you use a "remote start" with the starter solenoid disconnected there is no STA or STJ signal these are both imperative to a starting efi on the 22re. No cold start injector firing, no fuel pump running.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:21 PM
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I would first check to see if the fuel pump is running by jumping the Fp to B+ terminals in the Diagnostic Port / Check Connector, then turning the key to the ON position and listen by the tank to hear if the pump is running.

If I have read the previous posts correctly, you haven't confirmed if the regular injectors are firing, as the cold start injector and the regular injectors are controlled independently.

If I have time tomorrow, I might be able to post the vacuum diagram out of my 1987 Factory Repair Manual.




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Old 03-20-2019, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
​​​​​​that's not how this system works, it's not direct injection, the injectors are batch fired so there is always fuel in the intake runners if the ECU is firing the injectors.

Aside from the mangled vacuum and air intake.. If you use a "remote start" with the starter solenoid disconnected there is no STA or STJ signal these are both imperative to a starting efi on the 22re. No cold start injector firing, no fuel pump running.
I'm just using the remote start button to check timing and just to look at things while the engine is cranking then I hook the solenoid back up and try and start it from the cab.

Originally Posted by old87yota View Post
I would first check to see if the fuel pump is running by jumping the Fp to B+ terminals in the Diagnostic Port / Check Connector, then turning the key to the ON position and listen by the tank to hear if the pump is running.

If I have read the previous posts correctly, you haven't confirmed if the regular injectors are firing, as the cold start injector and the regular injectors are controlled independently.

If I have time tomorrow, I might be able to post the vacuum diagram out of my 1987 Factory Repair Manual.

Correct I have not tested the injectors independently. Like I said I sent them off to be cleaned and tested while the head was in the shop.
I just don't understand why they would stop firing.

TROUBLESHOOTING UPDATE

-Tested the fuel pump from the Fp/B+ port and I could hear and feel the pump running
-Attempted to start the truck with shot of ether NADA! I'm back to thinking this is a TIMING issue I just don't understand how. When I crank with my timing light the crank mark is lining up almost dead on the 0 mark if not maybe 1-2 degreen advanced.

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Old 03-20-2019, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by roughridn_sob View Post
...
-Tested the fuel pump from the Fp/B+ port and I could hear and feel the pump running
-Attempted to start the truck with shot of ether NADA! I'm back to thinking this is a TIMING issue I just don't understand how. When I crank with my timing light the crank mark is lining up almost dead on the 0 mark if not maybe 1-2 degreen advanced.
That "sounds" like having the distributor 180 out. The plugs fire on the exhaust, not compression, stroke.

I'll admit this is a hard mistake to make on a 22re, but you won't be the first. If you're getting spark and it won't fire with starting fluid, I'd pull the valve cover so I could confirm (by looking at the rockers) that the TDC you're looking at is the one on the compression stroke.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by scope103 View Post
That "sounds" like having the distributor 180 out. The plugs fire on the exhaust, not compression, stroke.

I'll admit this is a hard mistake to make on a 22re, but you won't be the first. If you're getting spark and it won't fire with starting fluid, I'd pull the valve cover so I could confirm (by looking at the rockers) that the TDC you're looking at is the one on the compression stroke.
I have thought that before but I am getting a good light with the gun vs the timing mark on the crank so this should mean that the distributor is good right? Also this may be a dumb question but is it possible to install the cam the...wrong way? Like I said before before tear down I lined everything up TDC and then zip tied the timing chain to the sprocket before removal and it was keyed so it should have gone back on the same way it came off the cam right?
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:57 AM
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Stethoscope the injectors and make sure they fire during cranking. If they're not firing check grounds and fuses. Check for continuity from injectors to the ECU. There are detailed posts to use an LED test lamp. (The injector harness is kind of fragile after all these years)

Double check the spark plug firing order. Verify the head ground is intact.

If that all checks out you'll want to check the valve timing/compression.

And of course the hose routing, we've seen people plumb the fuel return into the intake by mistake for example.
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by roughridn_sob View Post
I have thought that before but I am getting a good light with the gun vs the timing mark on the crank so this should mean that the distributor is good right? ...
No. The crank turns twice for each time the cam turns. So there are "two" TDCs for the crank; one at the top of the compression stroke, and the next after the crank turns 360 but the cam only 180. If the plugs are firing at the top of the exhaust stroke, it won't even ignite the fumes.

As I said, this is a hard assembly error to make. Usually after someone attaches the chain and spins the crank a few times, then installs the distributor thinking there is only "one" TDC. If you have spark and it won't fire on starting fluid, the possibilities are limited. I'd check the rocker positions just to take that off the table.
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:49 PM
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She lives!






Pictures for posterity but I finally solved my issue. Timing was dead on but It seems my fuel pump is not running when cranking. I got it to run like a top by supplying the FP diag port with 12v from the battery. I Have the wiring diagram but honestly its all german to me. Would there be any issue in instaling a switch for the fuel pump? Figure it could be used as a anti theft device also. I'll deff be trying to figure out why it's not triggering but in the mean time is this a viable solution.

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Old 03-21-2019, 06:53 AM
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A man's got to know his limitations ...

The reason for the VAF-COR circuit is so that when you get in an accident that breaks a fuel line, the fuel pump shuts off immediately. Do you want to be groping for your fuel switch with a shattered arm while the pool of gasoline around you is getting bigger?

As of today, there are about a gazillion threads on this forum discussing the VAF and COR and interconnection. But if it's all German to you, there's no shame in taking it to someone who fixes this stuff for a living.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:26 AM
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For sure thanks scope I've already printed out some troubleshooting for dummies for the VAF/COR from the forum hahaha. That's why I love communities like this. Atleast ive narrowed my problem.
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