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My truck came with two bonus items when I got it in June of 2015; a spare 22R engine and a brand-new Powertrax Lock-Right automatic locker still in its box. I never strongly considered installing the locker until my latest wheeling trip this past Veterans Day.
The few attempts made to climb some rocks, including one rock ledge that my dad managed to climb with my uncle's stock Lexus LX 450 on a previous wheeling trip, were foiled by my open diffs. Then again, it was misting that morning and the ground was a bit wet with mud and water puddles everywhere, so my wet/muddy tires probably had to do with that too. The drier, less rocky hills (some were pretty steep) were much easier to climb though.
That wheeling trip, combined with the fact that I have a locker ready to install has gotten me interested in doing so. The unit being a Lock-Right, I had no idea what an automatic locker was or how it worked, so I looked it up. While it sounds good "on paper", I'm a little doubtful; a locker that's designed to automatically lock and unlock itself both on and off the road sounds like it can go terribly wrong in a number of ways, but the many positive reviews I found of it say otherwise. Additionally, I was happy to learn that the Lock-Right locker was designed to be installed with little difficulty, which is good news for someone with limited mechanical skills like me.
If I was to install the locker, I figured it'd be best to put it in the rear diff. I don't think a front locker would be necessary for me because after doing some research, I found that front lockers are to be used sparingly and can potentially cause more problems than rear lockers. I also read that Lock-Right lockers tend to be pretty noisy when the vehicle is turning and can cause the rear tires to drag a tiny bit, so I'd have to prepare for those things.
I don't do any extreme wheeling with my truck, and I spend more time on the road than on wheeling trails, so would a Lock-Right locker work well for me? If you use a Lock-Right locker on your own rig, please do share your experiences.
Normally i’d Tell you to search as this is a very frequently asked question but what the hell.
i drove one for years. Including cross country, tight winding roads, and daily to work. I’ve read the positive and negative reviews of an autolocker. I drove winter before last in upstate NY (more snow and ice than lots of places). Had a Lock-Right rear and Aussie front.
They have quirks, I believe these quirks are easily to learn and predictable. You have to adapt your driving style to locker. The way you drive corners is different. Pulling into tight parking places is different. The way drive on an interstate on ramp is different. Driving in the snow is different.
Did you notice i ice I said different. So it depends on you as a person. Are you willing to learn to drive differently in some situations; you know the whole “improvise, adapt, overcome.” Or are you the “this is the way I do things you know “my way, no highway option.” I’ve told ppl driving a manual is high school level reading; driving an autolocker is college level. My daughter learned to drive mine on a learners permit. I’ve currently got an ARB in the rear but going back to an autolocker, Grizzly this winter as I wanted full carrier vrs lunch box style. I have not installed one but read proper installation is inportant to smoothest operation. You didn’t mention if your are manual or automatic, all my experience is manual.
Like Muddpigg I drove a locker equipped truck in regions with a lot of snow/ice (4 years alaska, 6 years upstate NY) it took a little while to get use to the auto locker. Lunch box lockers take a little while to get used to. Installs are easy, it put them in the front and rear of my old 81. $500 for front and rear lockers was nice
I want an ARB up front.
The thing to understand about lunchbox "lockers" (Lockright, Aussie, etc.), is that they are not lockers in the sense that both wheels are ever truly locked together in the same way that a switchable locker works. The mechanism doesn't allow for that. Rather, they behave as smart ratchets that work in forward and reverse, and have the following characteristics:
- When accelerating (either direction) under engine power, the slowest wheel gets 100% of the torque. The other wheel is always free to go faster. No wheel can go slower than the ring gear.
- When engine braking, the fastest wheel provides 100% of the braking. The other wheel is always free to go slower. No wheel can go faster than the ring gear.
- Unlike an open diff, which quite accurately always splits the torque 50/50 between the wheels, the lunchbox locker actually almost never does that. Instead, depending on conditions, the torque tends to shift back and forth between wheels, based on the two rules above. So, very rarely are both wheels pulling or braking equally.
What this means in a rear axle is that, as you are rounding a corner on dry pavement, if you apply power through the turn, all of the torque goes to the inside (slow) wheel. This has the effect of pushing the front end toward the outside of the turn, causing understeer, and making people say "applying power causes the locker to 'lock'". No, it didn't actually lock the wheels together, but the understeer has a similar feel (but not as pronounced) as to what happens when you try to turn a spooled or elocked vehicle on dry pavement. You may also hear the inside tire chirp in a sharp corner, since it is carrying the least weight and transmitting all of the torque.
If, while still in the corner, you let up on the gas suddenly and go into engine braking mode, the inside wheel now unlocks from the ring gear and the outside wheel locks up an instant later, often causing a bang or clunk. Now the outside wheel is holding back, again pulling the front end of the vehicle to the outside of the turn, and again causing understeer and that "locked" feeling.
If you do this on snow or ice, the front end may break loose and push straight forward, the ultimate "understeer".
If you coast gently through the turn without accelerating or engine braking, neither rear wheel is pushing or pulling, so the vehicle steers normally. You'll hear the ratchet clicking in the back if you have the windows open and the radio off.
Other characteristics:
On snow and ice, both rear wheels will break loose under acceleration at almost the same time. As soon as one wheel starts spinning, the other wheel becomes the slow wheel, and the locker transfers all the torque to it. If that wheel is also on a similar icy surface, it will then immediately start spinning as well. At this point you have lost control of your rear end, and you need to get off the gas quickly. Generally, auto lockers are more tricky to drive in slick conditions than open diffs, as has been said.
On the trail, the lunch box lockers work great, and you will be amazed at what your vehicle can now do. You'll never want to go back.
All that being said, if you understand how the locker actually works and how it transfers torque back and forth between the wheels, you can get along with it pretty well. But, your vehicle will no longer be particularly friendly for others who are not experienced with it and want to drive it.
I'll just add one other thing. I have my Aussie locker in the front. If you live in an area without significant snow and ice, and only need the locker for trail use, putting it in the front actually makes a lot of sense. You can throw on a set of Aisin manual hubs from ebay, and when the hubs are unlocked the locker is completely out of the picture and doesn't affect your daily on-pavement driving at all. Lock the hubs on the trail, and you have a very effective vehicle that will climb almost anything.
I drive my Aussie equipped 4runner on snow and ice, but not very much. The '06 with fulltime 4WD, a center diff, traction control, ABS, and stability control is just sooo much better.
1- you stated that an open dif splits power 50/50. This is not the case. Well perhaps in a straight line with equal traction but as soon as one slips the other will have no power going to it. Why they are called one wheeler squealers.
2- that an auto locker is almost never locked like spool. You can demonstrate this by lifting both tires off the ground and turning a tire. Both tires turn in same direction. If you drop the clutch in mud or sand both tires spin equally.
Like me the way you explain inner and outer tires in a turn. Sounds like it’s come an automatic transmission, I could be wrong. I found the key to sharp corners gentle throttle. No big changes either on or off gas just hold steady throttle. If you do need to get off throttle clutch it to keep things smooth or it’ll buck like a new driver learning to drive a stick. Applying heavy throttle in a turn will lock rear end causing the loud clank as locker teeth drop into mesh.
I’ve heard automatics make an autolocker feel smoother, especially on a heavier rig. My 1st gen 4rnr is light and manual so technique is critical. You 💯% right about someone not familiar driving it.
All of your observations are correct, @muddpigg. It's the underlying "why" that I'm trying to explain in more detail than is usually done, hopefully so people can predict a little more easily how their locker is going to behave under various circumstances.
Originally Posted by muddpigg
RJR- good read, but I do disagree with 2 points.
1- you stated that an open dif splits power 50/50. This is not the case. Well perhaps in a straight line with equal traction but as soon as one slips the other will have no power going to it. Why they are called one wheeler squealers.
Not quite what I said. I said an open diff splits torque 50/50. If one wheel is on ice, the diff can only apply a small amount of torque to that wheel before it starts spinning. That small amount is exactly the same torque as what the wheel with good traction gets, which means the "good traction" wheel doesn't turn and the vehicle doesn't move. "Torque" and "power" are thrown around loosely when people talk about this stuff, but they are two different things. Torque is the rotational "twisting force" applied to a shaft. Power = torque x rpm. So, you are correct that the stopped wheel gets no power, since rpm = 0. But, the torque, the "twisting force", is the same to both wheels. This is not generally true for an auto locker.
2- that an auto locker is almost never locked like spool. You can demonstrate this by lifting both tires off the ground and turning a tire. Both tires turn in same direction. If you drop the clutch in mud or sand both tires spin equally.
Your observation about lifting both wheels and noting that both turn in the same direction is correct, but that is only because there are small springs pushing the drive teeth (the "ratchets") into engagement under light loads. Those springs are overcome by the turning force of the wheel when the outside wheel wants to go faster and ratcheting occurs. Try this: Lift both tires off the ground with the transmission in gear (manual) or in park (auto). Now have a partner turn one wheel as hard as he can in one direction against the locked driveshaft, and hold it. You will easily be able to ratchet the other wheel in the opposite direction, no matter how hard your friend pushes on his wheel. If you can't, it's time to tear down your lunchbox and check spacings - something is wrong.
As far as dropping the clutch in sand and observing both wheels spinning, this is also true. Remember my rule #1 in my first post says that, under power, no wheel can go slower than the ring gear. So, both wheels will both keep up with the ring gear and turn at equal speeds. And, in this case torque will generally be pretty equal to both wheels because they are both slipping and both sides of the ratchet mechanism are engaged. But, while you're driving down a paved road and changing lanes or going around curves, torque is shifting from one wheel to the other. Think of both wheels as being driven by simple one-way ratchets. On one side or the other, the ratchet teeth will be tightly engaged to push the vehicle along, but not very often on both sides at once. One wheel will always be part of a tooth ahead of the other, and the ratchet will be "loose" on that side. That wheel is getting no torque and is just (momentarily) along for the ride. It's the same principle with these lockers, although the ratchet mechanism details are different to provide for working in both directions and under coasting as well as acceleration. Admittedly this whole thing is kind of an obscure point, but if you study the locker mechanisms carefully, you'll see that's how it works.
Like me the way you explain inner and outer tires in a turn. Sounds like it’s come an automatic transmission, I could be wrong. I found the key to sharp corners gentle throttle. No big changes either on or off gas just hold steady throttle. If you do need to get off throttle clutch it to keep things smooth or it’ll buck like a new driver learning to drive a stick. Applying heavy throttle in a turn will lock rear end causing the loud clank as locker teeth drop into mesh.
That clank is the torque shifting from one side to the other, and the teeth on the previously unlocked side now engaging, as you point out. At that point the other side is free to ratchet, and will if you're in a corner. In an Aussie (not sure about a LockRite), there are about 10 degrees of slop in the drive shaft as the locker goes from coast to accelerate and the torque changes sides. That is much more than you'll find with a standard open diff (< 1 deg). So when you go from coast to accelerate, all that slop results in some noise and commotion. I would agree that gentle steady throttle is best in turns. Auto lockers do not respond politely to sudden shifts from coast to accelerate, or vice versa. It's a bit like starting and stopping a freight train. Lots of free play to take up before things settle down.
I’ve heard automatics make an autolocker feel smoother, especially on a heavier rig. My 1st gen 4rnr is light and manual so technique is critical. You 💯% right about someone not familiar driving it.
The torque transfer going from accelerate to coast and back again in an automatic is generally smoother, which I would agree would smooth out the operation of the auto-locker.
i drove one for years. Including cross country, tight winding roads, and daily to work. I’ve read the positive and negative reviews of an autolocker. I drove winter before last in upstate NY (more snow and ice than lots of places). Had a Lock-Right rear and Aussie front.
They have quirks, I believe these quirks are easily to learn and predictable. You have to adapt your driving style to locker. The way you drive corners is different. Pulling into tight parking places is different. The way drive on an interstate on ramp is different. Driving in the snow is different.
Did you notice i ice I said different. So it depends on you as a person. Are you willing to learn to drive differently in some situations; you know the whole “improvise, adapt, overcome.” Or are you the “this is the way I do things you know “my way, no highway option.” I’ve told ppl driving a manual is high school level reading; driving an autolocker is college level. My daughter learned to drive mine on a learners permit. I’ve currently got an ARB in the rear but going back to an autolocker, Grizzly this winter as I wanted full carrier vrs lunch box style. I have not installed one but read proper installation is inportant to smoothest operation. You didn’t mention if your are manual or automatic, all my experience is manual.
If it isn't too hard to get accustomed to driving with a locker, I can do it.
I'll just add one other thing. I have my Aussie locker in the front. If you live in an area without significant snow and ice, and only need the locker for trail use, putting it in the front actually makes a lot of sense. You can throw on a set of Aisin manual hubs from ebay, and when the hubs are unlocked the locker is completely out of the picture and doesn't affect your daily on-pavement driving at all. Lock the hubs on the trail, and you have a very effective vehicle that will climb almost anything.
I drive my Aussie equipped 4runner on snow and ice, but not very much. The '06 with fulltime 4WD, a center diff, traction control, ABS, and stability control is just sooo much better.
I actually did initially think about putting the locker in the front. My truck does have the Aisin manual locking hubs, so in that case they would effectively make the Lock-Right a "selectable" locker. However, I changed my mind on a front locker for two main reasons:
1. When a vehicle is climbing, its weight is shifted towards the rear, so to me it seems like a front locker would be of less help than a rear one in that situation.
2. I've read on an older thread here that a front locker can cause the front of a vehicle to unexpectedly go sideways during a climb.
Additionally, having an IFS truck, the installation of a front locker would require some more disassembly than installing a rear locker, which makes the idea of having a front locker slightly more prohibitive in my case.
Got pics from Zuk yesterday here’s what’s going in mine.
i’m pull ARB as dif is making a ton of noise that has gotten worse. Really not 100% if from set up on used years or bad pinion bearing.
Like mention you’ll need to change driving style. Since I live in the land of ice, snow, and road salt when it comes to winter driving one big secret. Slow down.....
since this question comes up a lot. You might wanna post a periodic review. Like first impression on road. Tricks and tips as you learn its characteristics, handling in different weather..... Many post on subject but haven’t seen one that is like a “journal/diary/log” from first impression to fully learned. Just a thought.
1. When a vehicle is climbing, its weight is shifted towards the rear, so to me it seems like a front locker would be of less help than a rear one in that situation.
2. I've read on an older thread here that a front locker can cause the front of a vehicle to unexpectedly go sideways during a climb.
Additionally, having an IFS truck, the installation of a front locker would require some more disassembly than installing a rear locker, which makes the idea of having a front locker slightly more prohibitive in my case.
Your point 1 is true, but it's not as black and white as it may seem. Since the 4runner has significantly more weight on the front axle to start with, it takes a fairly steep climb, something like 30% or more, before the rear weight catches up to the front. On the other hand, your front wheels are the first to hit a ledge or obstruction, and having the locker in front can help you climb over that more readily.
Wrt point 2, you are correct. You simply have to be ready for the unexpected.
Biggest thing, I think, is that the front CV axles aren't as strong as the solid axles in the back. A locker doubles the maximum torque the engine can apply to an axle, so CV breakage is a concern with a locked front end.
Lot's of trade-offs to consider. I'm happy with my setup - I'm not a hard or aggressive wheeler. The front locker does exactly what I need, and I really like the fact that it disappears on the highway when I unlock the hubs.
I did my own installations of the TrueTrac in my rear diff, and the Aussie in my front. The front is definitely a bit more involved, particularly getting the CV axles disconnected and out of the way. Beyond that, it went pretty well. Some kind of jack to assist in supporting the diff during removal and install is a key component. I built cradles out of plywood that attached to my floor jack, customized for each diff - made each job an easy one-man affair.
Your point 1 is true, but it's not as black and white as it may seem. Since the 4runner has significantly more weight on the front axle to start with, it takes a fairly steep climb, something like 30% or more, before the rear weight catches up to the front. On the other hand, your front wheels are the first to hit a ledge or obstruction, and having the locker in front can help you climb over that more readily.
Most of the climbing I do consists of gradients that are least 30%. Hills/slopes that have small to medium-sized rocks are easily climbable for me with open diffs, but it's the bigger rocks that I have trouble with. I'm not talking about pro rock crawler-sized rocks though.
Biggest thing, I think, is that the front CV axles aren't as strong as the solid axles in the back. A locker doubles the maximum torque the engine can apply to an axle, so CV breakage is a concern with a locked front end.
That's one of my other main concerns with a front locker, but I didn't mention it because I wasn't sure if it was true or not. My driver's side CV axle is still new, and I wouldn't want to break it so soon. Then again, maybe I will consider having a front locker, but I think I'll experiment by putting the locker in the rear diff first, and if it doesn't work well enough I can just take it out and put it in the front diff. Maybe I'll even buy a second locker if the one I currently have proves not to be enough.
Since you are talking about installing the locker that came with your truck, I believe the decision has been made for you... The front and rear diffs are different for ifs trucks, so your locker either fits the front or rear. So just put it where it will fit
Lots of great info in this thread, especially on driving characteristics of lockers.
Since you are talking about installing the locker that came with your truck, I believe the decision has been made for you... The front and rear diffs are different for ifs trucks, so your locker either fits the front or rear. So just put it where it will fit
Lots of great info in this thread, especially on driving characteristics of lockers.
Originally Posted by millball
If you've got IFS your locker will only fit front, or rear. The parts are not interchangable.
To show you guys some of what I tried to climb with my truck, here's the rock ledge I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, successfully climbed by my dad in my uncle's stock, OEM triple-locked Lexus. Only the center diff was locked on this climb, so the front and rear diffs were open. Took the same approach with my truck but failed, even after adding a little bit of momentum. The Lexus climbed up with very little effort, even with open diffs and barely aired-down tires, but then again unlike with my situation, the ground was dry.
So you need to look up the lock rights part number on the box and figure out if it's a front or rear diff..
1610 LR is toyota 8" (rear end)
1611,LR 7.5" 27 spline front IFS
4.88's would also help..pushing 33's with 4.10s isn't helping your cause
Does the Lexus have traction control (ATRAC)? That can help a lot on stuff like that. Also, yours is a manual, right, vs. I'm assuming an automatic for the Lexus. Much easier with the auto to apply smooth power and keep the wheels from breaking loose.
I'm pretty sure it would be easier to get my automatic, V8, open diffs '06 over that ledge than my locked 5speed '94. The ATRAC plus the smooth low-end torque of the auto V8 makes stuff like that easy.
One thing to try with your manual next time is the "starter trick". This is taught in Toyota offroad classes for obstacles like this. Pull up tight against the ledge, and shut off the engine. Then, with the transmission in 1st gear and the clutch engaged (foot off the pedal), hit the "clutch start cancel" button and hit the starter with the key. The truck will smoothly climb the obstacle under starter power, and if you feather the gas right, the engine will catch and pull you over the rest of the way.
This works because the starter motor has more torque than the engine at low speeds, and applies that torque much more slowly and smoothly than you can do by slipping the clutch. Try it; you'll be pretty impressed.
11-12-2017, 10:29 PM
