my 75 toyota

First of all Happy New Years all. On a 88 pickup 22re, 5spd, does anyone know if the afm has to sit level. Because on my i switched the afm to the passenger side with a short intake tube for my cold air system and now it leans down at about a 45 degree angle. I did not know if that would effect the flap door that monitors the air flow or not. Thanks

ThatGuy1295

Don't think that flapper weighs enough to close against the air coming in enough to throw the reading off very much, if at all. But maybe at low rpm's with not much throttle. Would avoid placing it out of level if you can, but if can't, then test it with your first tank of gas, good power/mpg's leave it.

americanmcss

Not 100% sure but I believe that the trap door is mildly spring loaded so you should not notice any difference. I have been researching the Supra/Cressida AFM Swap and location change for a good chunk of time today and noticed that there are quite a few guys whose AFMs are tilted at funny angles now after said modifications. I would assume that there would be some kind of resistance there since thats how the idiotic things work. LC Engineering has a bolt on Tacoma Mass Airflow Sensor kit for the 22re's for about $950 - $1300 depending on engine mods. So tempting but 12 ponies and 23 ft. lbs for that kinda money scares me a bit. But power comes at a premium with these engines and if you want it, your going to pay.

BTW, sorry about the sidetrack there. Just spewing my lastest research. Thanks and good luck.

my 75 toyota

Was thinking of using the megasqiurt system and doing away with the afm anyways. Should run alot better with that system and its about 350.00

InternetRoadkill

Good grief. Here's a link to the LCE MAF upgrade:

http://www.lceperformance.com/Mass-A...-p/1063070.htm

I have to say that $924+ is ridiculous for such an item, and I don't know why there's 3 escalating price levels/stages for this functionality. I'm going to have to rethink about producing the one I made for sale. I was worried $150 was going to be way too much.

But I can vouch for the 12HP gain. The AFMs on the 22RE do sap HP.

alltracman78

Short answer, yes. But it really shouldn't matter to you.

When the vehicle is sitting still [or rolling along smoothly] the flapper door shouldn't be effected by gravity very much at all.
But every time you bump or jolt or take a corner fast the flapper is probably going to do a small "hiccup", momentarily effecting the signal.
It shouldn't make much of a difference in driveability, especially considering the age of the AFM and the programming of the ECU.
If you were racing or something it would probably be more of a problem, but not day to day.

The AFM doesn't really hurt HP at all.
I'm betting most [or all] of that gain is from the piggyback, not the 5VZFE MAF.
The AFM physically isn't much of a restriction. Even on Toyotas turbo engines the gain from physically removing the AFM is very small. Specifically on the 3SGTE [200 CRANK HP stock] ATS racing only had a ~ 4HP loss at I think 300 WHEEL HP from the AFM. Obviously the ECU wasn't using it as a sensor, they were purely testing the physical restriction it caused in the intake.
It's actually a very accurate sensor, IMO as good or better than a hotwire MAF.
The problem[s] occur when the AFM gets old, because it has moving parts it wears out so it doesn't give an accurate signal to the ECU anymore.
Also, the programming in the ECU is almost archaic compared to what we have to day. If you took a brand new AFM and remapped the ECU with todays technology/know how [and for performance and not reliability] I bet you'd gain even more than 12 HP.

my 75 toyota

well heres the thing the engine no longer sets in a truck now it sets in a 75 Celica Gt. And thats why i was wondering if the angle would effect it in any way as i am wanting to get as much power as possible. And thats why i am thinking of the Mega sqiurt stand alone controller with a msd 6a igntion box. And a rv2 cam

my 75 toyota

its got some lag on accell i want to get rid of

alltracman78

It doesn't matter WHAT it's sitting in, it's the angle that matters.
For the record, I had the AFM in my Celica Alltrac sideways for years without any issues.

If you want max power you'll need to ditch the ECU [and AFM].
Assuming you're not throwing loads of money at it, it may be better for you to go the carburetor route, though others on here could tell you better than I.

ThatGuy1295

Gees! Like the tech specs

ThatGuy1295

In summary don't worry about the angle.

You put a 22re in a celica uh? Nice!! Fast?
NOS, turbo, any other plans?



Toyota eventually (3.4 and up) went to a not so mechanical air flow meter. Maybe its because of that primitive design and couple of horse power gain by not having a spring powered intake obstruction.

alltracman78

Yup, that's the MAF LC Engineering uses in thier kit.
The design may be primitive, but it works well until it gets old.
The main reason for the change to the newer style was probably price, AFMs are expensive.
HP gain had nothing to do with it.
I went and checked that AFM comparision I mentioned. There is no spring powered intake obstruction.
There was less than a 3 HP and a .6 ft/lb loss from putting the AFM in the intake tract.
It was on a modded 3SGTE w/ 315 WHEEL HP, so close to 400 crank HP.
That means on a 22RE, the physical restriction is nothing.

The dyno chart isn't up anymore, but the results still are.
You'll have to register to view, but it's free.
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=141360

my 75 toyota

cool i was wondering if that was the thottle lag i was getting just off idle or i mean as soon as i hit the gas it hesitates then goes. I have everything hooked up except the o2, spd, ps, a/c, sensors and the trans ecu as my car has none of that.

americanmcss

Well that could be a large part of your problem right there. Your motor isnt going to run correctly until all of those sensors are plugged in and reading nominally. Any loss of a major sensor to these engines will send it into kind of a safe mode where it pretends its more of a carbureted motor and will just dump fuel into the engine to keep it running. When it comes to EFI, those sensors are your best friend and enemy.

my 75 toyota

And thats why i want to goto a stand alone controller because this car has none of those. The o2 sensor i can put in but gonna have to change the exhaust manifold . As the one on it currently has no place. And the rest i have no way of putting on it. So i fig stand alone or put a carb and intake on it

alltracman78

You definitely need the O2 sensor, that's very important.
The speed sensor is good to have as well.
PS is only for raising the idle while turning the wheel [and I was under the impression there was a mechanical valve for that, not a sensor?].
AC and auto trans are only if you have them.

So basically all you really need to worry about is the manifold/O2.

alltracman78

BTW, the late 22R engines had an O2 in the manifold, so you can use that as well as an EFI manifold.

my 75 toyota

yeah lookin at efi manifolds or a header as long as it seals around what would be air manifold that recycles the exhaust which i dont have

americanmcss

Buy the right header for your truck and then weld the holes shut. No worrying about leakes there. Obx makes a really nice stainless header for the yotas which is what ive got. Had to take the ball peen to it a couple times to make it fit.

abecedarian

Umm... you've an '88 right? And it was a 22re to start, right? (Nevermind - confirmed you said that in your OP.) So the O2 sensor is a heated (4 wire type) and mounts about 18" AFTER the collector at the bottom of the exhaust manifold... or about 12" in front of the catalytic converter and not on the manifold at all. I bet, if you look at your floorpan, you'll see where there is or was a grommet that passed the wires out of the body ... maybe around mid-driver's door or so ... .
No need to change the manifold, just weld a bung into the pipe ahead of the converter, then wire it up.