L.C.E. Timing Chain Conversion Kit..going to double chain..
12-30-2011, 09:05 PM
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L.C.E. Timing Chain Conversion Kit..going to double chain..
This is for 95 22RE . Looked at alot of timing chain repairs and advise on this site and others and decided to go with the LC Engineering Double Chain upgrade kit. Looked at the others that were offered but in the end decided to go with the double chain setup and im glad I did. I agree it may seem a little expensive at first but in the end with all of the quality parts I think its well worth the 389.00. Basically this kit changes your timing chain setup to that of the previous year Toyota 's where a double chain was standard, I believe this was around 82 or 83..im sure someone will give when they switched over. Im going to give you what I found and a few installation tips I learned along the way...
The conversion kit comes with the following
Custom Timing Cover..which looks exactly like the origional cover and bolts on the exact same way..Quality item ..
OSK New timing chain kit from Japan..steel guides for both sides along with quality OSK chain
Blueprinted OEM Aisin Oil Pump..this I think is one of the best items..LCE takes the oil pump and blueprints it by hand..you can tell the difference immediately when you start the engine. Instead of having hardly any oil pressure at idle as most toyotas have this gives you a steady 20 lbs at idle which makes the motor seem a lot quieter as its getting more oil to the rockers thus making it a lot more quiet.Its a quality item,you can tell as soon as you take it out of the box.
New Double chain timing cover
New Aisin oil pump drive spline, again u can tell the quality..
New NPW Water Pump, made in Japan, again quality
Complete gasket kit,of coarse OEM
Complete New Bolt kit.
New OEM front seal
So with this kit you end up having a new OSK double chain with steel guides, New oil pump, new water pump,new oil spline, all the gaskets, seals and bolts you need. For the record, i dont work for LCE nor know anyone there, just like to let everyone know about a quality product when I come across one, god knows theres a lot of junk out there.
Im not going to go step by step as thats covered a lot on here already but will point out a few things that I found helped.
The only modification you have to make with this kit is in the valve cover. Theres a baffle thats right below where the oil fill cap is and is held on with 4 rivets. Small drill will drill this rivets out and the baffle will come off, its needed to be taken off for clearance of the chain. Took less that 5 minutes to take the baffle off. Other than the baffle the chain goes on exactly like any single chain and I found it actually easier that the single chains I have done.
One of the things that catches a few people is to remove the head or oil pan. I found it easier to leave them on if you follow a few precautions and are carefull. It can be done easily without any leaks if you are carefull.
The gasket between the head and timing cover seems to get messed up a lot and if not done corectly can lead to a nice oil leak. Heres a few things that might help you. First off the section of the head gasket thats connected with the head gasket is there stricly to keep oil in control and not to leak. It serves no compression responcibility at all. When you take off the timing cover to start with theres a good chance if its origional or been on there a while it will tear or be in poor shape.Thats ok there a way to fix that. If the gasket is ok than you can just reuse it if not heres something that works. Ive learned this from Toyota mechanics that stress to me how important it is to use the Toyota brand black gasket maker. While others say theres no difference between the Toyota brand and other gasket making such as Permatex i think there is having used both. Not going to try and change anyone mind but I believe theres a difference. I side with the Toyota mechanics who cant afford to have jobs return. Anyway back to the head gasket...you will need to buy a new head gasket which will cost you around 16.00. You are only going to need the part that goes over the timing cover. After getting head cover gasket you need to carefully line the holes up where the timing cover will go.Going towards the rear measure to where the gasket meets the head and cut the gasket at this point.You are basically replacing the head gasket section thats on top of the timing chain cover. The tricky part is when you put the timing cover back on to keep this section of gasket from moving or getting crinkled but heres how to fix that. Prior to putting the section of the replaced head gasket section in place ask your wife,girlfriend or whoever sews in your house for a needle and thread. You are going to use a fine piece of thread and with the needle run the thread through the front of the gasket and out. Use a long enough piece to allow it to be tied to the front. Most thread is pretty tough and will hold when you put the timing cover back in place. I trying to explain this the best I can so bear with me. Basically the thread will allow you to hold the front of the gasket in place so that when you are putting the timing cover back into place it again doesnt crinkle it but will allow you to keep tension on it so the front of the gasket stays in place. After you have the thread in place use a couple of small drops of super glue to hold the section of gasket in place.,allow it time to dry. The oil pan is next. When you first take the timing cover off its a good idea to stick a couple of rags in the oil pan opening to help prevent things from falling in. If you are carefull u can keep this to a minimum. You need to make sure the oil pan is clean and all old gasket material is removed. After you have done this and made the area as clean as possible remove the rags to see if there is any gasket material that has falling into the oil pan. Im sure there will be a little. Make sure the oil pan drain bolt is off and take a little oil and pour it into the opening which will drain most of the stuff that might have falling in out the oil drain hole. You wont get it all but getting any out will help. I think its best that you do a oil change after 100 miles to ant extra junk also out. But back to the oil pan. When you put the Toyota FPG gasket maker on you want to put it into the groove thats in the oil pan and circling all of the bolts, not to much, not to little..just fill the groove...remember to put some extra of the FIPG in both corners of the oil pan where it will meet with the timing cover, not to much, just fill the corner slightly, to much is bad...And not to put to much pressure on you but when using the Toyota FIPG you have about 20 minutes of work time with it, so have everything laid out and a plan, you dont have time to look for things..
We are now going back to the top part of the timing cover..your section of replaced head gasket should meet up pretty close with where the head is or the back section of the timing chain cover...you want to put the Toyota FIPG gasket silicone in both corners of where the timing cover will butt up against the head. The FIPG should cover the section where your replaced gasket meets the head..use about the same amount of FIPG that you used on the oil pan corners,,not to much ..
With the FIPG silicone in place, and holding or have a helper hold the thread for the front of the gasket slowly and evenly return the timing cover back making sure the the top section of head gasket with the string doesnt crinkle but stays in place. Once you pass the point where u are sure the gasket is in place put in the famous secret bolt thats under the cam which goes into the top of the timing cover. You also want to go to the oil pan and replace the 2 oil pan bolts making sure that you put some of the Toyota FIPG on both bolts. Its important that these bolts go in first as its way to tell that things are lined up and that both sections that are using the Toyota FPG are in place before there drying and cure time is up. Follow shop manual for bolt sequence and torque. Also remember that the top bolt of the oil pump gets FIPG on it. Its important that after you have finished that you give the FIPG plenty of time to dry and cure. While i know everyone wants to start it up right away its best to leave it overnight if you can. Even friends of mine that are Toyota mechanics have said this is one of the most important things..enough time to dry and become a gasket. There are other little things im sure im forgetting and i ll add them as I remember them.
But back to the review of the LCE timing conversion...after everything was done and it was started I couldnt believe it was the same motor, it was to quiet to believe. No more sewing machine noise, no valve chatter, ( i did adjust them though to 7 and 11)..and it was a lot smoother. My chain lasted till 160,000 miles and I was lucky as I heard it when guide broke,,only the top of drivers side broke and in one piece, laying between timing chain on top of bottom gear, broke as I was pulling it into my garage, how lucky is that. As I said I think the Quality of Aisin oil pump which is blueprinted has a lot to do with it, its getting oil at idle now, I dont think it got very much before..I think if you take into account that you are getting new cover, chain,steel guides, oil pump,water pump, spline,gasket,seals, everything box individually all quality from Japan its a great deal. Its like the tv ad..do it and forget it..i think thats the case..I hope this helps anyone who is thinking about doing their timing chain, its not really that hard. These are my experiences, not saying this is the best or only way to do it, just one way and a few things that I found that helped....G
The conversion kit comes with the following
Custom Timing Cover..which looks exactly like the origional cover and bolts on the exact same way..Quality item ..
OSK New timing chain kit from Japan..steel guides for both sides along with quality OSK chain
Blueprinted OEM Aisin Oil Pump..this I think is one of the best items..LCE takes the oil pump and blueprints it by hand..you can tell the difference immediately when you start the engine. Instead of having hardly any oil pressure at idle as most toyotas have this gives you a steady 20 lbs at idle which makes the motor seem a lot quieter as its getting more oil to the rockers thus making it a lot more quiet.Its a quality item,you can tell as soon as you take it out of the box.
New Double chain timing cover
New Aisin oil pump drive spline, again u can tell the quality..
New NPW Water Pump, made in Japan, again quality
Complete gasket kit,of coarse OEM
Complete New Bolt kit.
New OEM front seal
So with this kit you end up having a new OSK double chain with steel guides, New oil pump, new water pump,new oil spline, all the gaskets, seals and bolts you need. For the record, i dont work for LCE nor know anyone there, just like to let everyone know about a quality product when I come across one, god knows theres a lot of junk out there.
Im not going to go step by step as thats covered a lot on here already but will point out a few things that I found helped.
The only modification you have to make with this kit is in the valve cover. Theres a baffle thats right below where the oil fill cap is and is held on with 4 rivets. Small drill will drill this rivets out and the baffle will come off, its needed to be taken off for clearance of the chain. Took less that 5 minutes to take the baffle off. Other than the baffle the chain goes on exactly like any single chain and I found it actually easier that the single chains I have done.
One of the things that catches a few people is to remove the head or oil pan. I found it easier to leave them on if you follow a few precautions and are carefull. It can be done easily without any leaks if you are carefull.
The gasket between the head and timing cover seems to get messed up a lot and if not done corectly can lead to a nice oil leak. Heres a few things that might help you. First off the section of the head gasket thats connected with the head gasket is there stricly to keep oil in control and not to leak. It serves no compression responcibility at all. When you take off the timing cover to start with theres a good chance if its origional or been on there a while it will tear or be in poor shape.Thats ok there a way to fix that. If the gasket is ok than you can just reuse it if not heres something that works. Ive learned this from Toyota mechanics that stress to me how important it is to use the Toyota brand black gasket maker. While others say theres no difference between the Toyota brand and other gasket making such as Permatex i think there is having used both. Not going to try and change anyone mind but I believe theres a difference. I side with the Toyota mechanics who cant afford to have jobs return. Anyway back to the head gasket...you will need to buy a new head gasket which will cost you around 16.00. You are only going to need the part that goes over the timing cover. After getting head cover gasket you need to carefully line the holes up where the timing cover will go.Going towards the rear measure to where the gasket meets the head and cut the gasket at this point.You are basically replacing the head gasket section thats on top of the timing chain cover. The tricky part is when you put the timing cover back on to keep this section of gasket from moving or getting crinkled but heres how to fix that. Prior to putting the section of the replaced head gasket section in place ask your wife,girlfriend or whoever sews in your house for a needle and thread. You are going to use a fine piece of thread and with the needle run the thread through the front of the gasket and out. Use a long enough piece to allow it to be tied to the front. Most thread is pretty tough and will hold when you put the timing cover back in place. I trying to explain this the best I can so bear with me. Basically the thread will allow you to hold the front of the gasket in place so that when you are putting the timing cover back into place it again doesnt crinkle it but will allow you to keep tension on it so the front of the gasket stays in place. After you have the thread in place use a couple of small drops of super glue to hold the section of gasket in place.,allow it time to dry. The oil pan is next. When you first take the timing cover off its a good idea to stick a couple of rags in the oil pan opening to help prevent things from falling in. If you are carefull u can keep this to a minimum. You need to make sure the oil pan is clean and all old gasket material is removed. After you have done this and made the area as clean as possible remove the rags to see if there is any gasket material that has falling into the oil pan. Im sure there will be a little. Make sure the oil pan drain bolt is off and take a little oil and pour it into the opening which will drain most of the stuff that might have falling in out the oil drain hole. You wont get it all but getting any out will help. I think its best that you do a oil change after 100 miles to ant extra junk also out. But back to the oil pan. When you put the Toyota FPG gasket maker on you want to put it into the groove thats in the oil pan and circling all of the bolts, not to much, not to little..just fill the groove...remember to put some extra of the FIPG in both corners of the oil pan where it will meet with the timing cover, not to much, just fill the corner slightly, to much is bad...And not to put to much pressure on you but when using the Toyota FIPG you have about 20 minutes of work time with it, so have everything laid out and a plan, you dont have time to look for things..
We are now going back to the top part of the timing cover..your section of replaced head gasket should meet up pretty close with where the head is or the back section of the timing chain cover...you want to put the Toyota FIPG gasket silicone in both corners of where the timing cover will butt up against the head. The FIPG should cover the section where your replaced gasket meets the head..use about the same amount of FIPG that you used on the oil pan corners,,not to much ..
With the FIPG silicone in place, and holding or have a helper hold the thread for the front of the gasket slowly and evenly return the timing cover back making sure the the top section of head gasket with the string doesnt crinkle but stays in place. Once you pass the point where u are sure the gasket is in place put in the famous secret bolt thats under the cam which goes into the top of the timing cover. You also want to go to the oil pan and replace the 2 oil pan bolts making sure that you put some of the Toyota FIPG on both bolts. Its important that these bolts go in first as its way to tell that things are lined up and that both sections that are using the Toyota FPG are in place before there drying and cure time is up. Follow shop manual for bolt sequence and torque. Also remember that the top bolt of the oil pump gets FIPG on it. Its important that after you have finished that you give the FIPG plenty of time to dry and cure. While i know everyone wants to start it up right away its best to leave it overnight if you can. Even friends of mine that are Toyota mechanics have said this is one of the most important things..enough time to dry and become a gasket. There are other little things im sure im forgetting and i ll add them as I remember them.
But back to the review of the LCE timing conversion...after everything was done and it was started I couldnt believe it was the same motor, it was to quiet to believe. No more sewing machine noise, no valve chatter, ( i did adjust them though to 7 and 11)..and it was a lot smoother. My chain lasted till 160,000 miles and I was lucky as I heard it when guide broke,,only the top of drivers side broke and in one piece, laying between timing chain on top of bottom gear, broke as I was pulling it into my garage, how lucky is that. As I said I think the Quality of Aisin oil pump which is blueprinted has a lot to do with it, its getting oil at idle now, I dont think it got very much before..I think if you take into account that you are getting new cover, chain,steel guides, oil pump,water pump, spline,gasket,seals, everything box individually all quality from Japan its a great deal. Its like the tv ad..do it and forget it..i think thats the case..I hope this helps anyone who is thinking about doing their timing chain, its not really that hard. These are my experiences, not saying this is the best or only way to do it, just one way and a few things that I found that helped....G
Last edited by 96vettelt4; 01-01-2012 at 12:15 PM.
12-31-2011, 02:08 PM
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so for $400 or so, you have a part that will last around 400,000 miles, right?
.... and since the 85+ timing chain has a factory recommended life span of around 80,000miles and costs around $80 to do... over 400K miles you'll spend somewhere around $320-$400 to have something that'll last just us long as what you've spent $400 on the aftermarket for, right? The only difference is you have some semblance of confidence that your non-stock / LCE setup will last that long since they (LCE) say it will so you don't have to think about it until it's ready to break, right?
.... and since the 85+ timing chain has a factory recommended life span of around 80,000miles and costs around $80 to do... over 400K miles you'll spend somewhere around $320-$400 to have something that'll last just us long as what you've spent $400 on the aftermarket for, right? The only difference is you have some semblance of confidence that your non-stock / LCE setup will last that long since they (LCE) say it will so you don't have to think about it until it's ready to break, right?
12-31-2011, 07:11 PM
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thats right..you got it....piece of mind..but it seems you are leaving out the blueprinted Aisin oil pump with new spline..new NPW japan water pump..new timing chain cover..all the gaskets and seals..new bolts..and the other items..you need to add these in unless you are going to put back on the old oil pump and water pump..im pretty sure that doesnt come with 80.00 you are speaking of...Funny thing is that if you check these boards a lot you will very rearly see anyone having any problems with their timing chain or guides if they have the earlier setup with the double chain..i couldnt find any. As I said I dont even know anyone at LC Engineering but I do know they provide there products to a lot of race teams and everyday people and all I found were people that had good things to say about them, now im one of those people. Is it the answer for everyone? of coarse not, its just some additional information to help others decide whats best for them. But I have piece of mind knowing im not going to worry about my timing chain, guides, oil pump or water pump anymore. If it gets me to 400,000 i'll be sure to let you know....G
Last edited by 96vettelt4; 12-31-2011 at 07:21 PM.
07-19-2012, 11:58 AM
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How has the LC Engineering Master Rebuild kit held up?
How has this held up?
I am in the middle of rebuilding the engine in my 22RE and I was seriously looking at buying the Master Rebild kit (maybe tomorrow) from LC Engineering...
My only concern is the gasket set. How has it held up? They told me it was PK Japan gaskets = OEM. Is this correct?
Thanks!
-Mike
I am in the middle of rebuilding the engine in my 22RE and I was seriously looking at buying the Master Rebild kit (maybe tomorrow) from LC Engineering...
My only concern is the gasket set. How has it held up? They told me it was PK Japan gaskets = OEM. Is this correct?
Thanks!
-Mike
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07-19-2012, 07:21 PM
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It has held up great..i have over 5,000 miles since i replaced the timing chain and everything is perfect, hasnt dripped a single drop of oil. Still running quiet and seems to have a little more zip in in and motor seems to rev a lot easier. The gaskets are OEM from Japan, i assume they r still the same and have held up great. i do a lot of engine work and have to say the LC Timing kit has been one of the best things i have ever replaced on a vehicle as in getting what is advertised. Its nice to sit at idle and have 35 to 40 lbs of oil pressure as compared to previous where there was about 10 to 15 lbs..the Blue printed oil pump makes a world of difference along with the water pump which is also blueprinted..as i said before..do it and forget about any further worry of the timing chain and it is one of those jobs that you would like to have to do only one time. As i said before I dont know anyone at LC Engineer so these observations are strictly my views..Its a great product..good luck on which ever way you choose and if i can be of any help feel free to contact me...
07-20-2012, 01:00 PM
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I have been running a Double Chain on my hilux since 2006 and have not had any issues with it. LCE makes some good stuff.
Interestingly, a local toyota shop here offers their customers a lifetime waranty on all double chain replacements. The owner of that shop told me they have installed hundereds of double chains on 22re's and he has not seen one fail yet. Years ago Toyota put double chains on these 22's. IMO they should have never switched to the single chain and the plastic guides. But then again I subscribe to overkill engineering.
Interestingly, a local toyota shop here offers their customers a lifetime waranty on all double chain replacements. The owner of that shop told me they have installed hundereds of double chains on 22re's and he has not seen one fail yet. Years ago Toyota put double chains on these 22's. IMO they should have never switched to the single chain and the plastic guides. But then again I subscribe to overkill engineering.
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