Fenris

The patient is a '95 Pickup DLX 4x4 Xtra cab w/ 22RE 5 spd manual. I bought it new and it's got 81,000 miles on it - almost all on road. A few weeks back I went out for lunch and the truck drove fine. On the way home, it ran rough with high idle, loping and no power on acceleration. The valves went from the occasional rattle to noisy as hell. I've adjusted the valves to 0.007 / 0.011 cold - still very noisy. I've replaced all of the vacuum hoses and pulled and cleaned the throttle body - all new gaskets. TPS, MAF, coil & wires all spec fine on the VOM. I replaced the fuel filter and installed a fuel pressure gauge on the cold start injector. I'm getting 42-43 psig at idle (1800 rpm) and 45 psig when I rev it. Fuel pressure is holding steady. I paper clipped the diagnostic block and I'm getting no error codes. So, what's left? What are the symptoms of a timing chain jumping a tooth?

jnew911

Was it overheating when you were driving it? Check the timing. If the timing chain jumped a tooth the timing will obviously be wrong. You'll know if you get a timing light in there. Might as well pull the valve cover and look in there to see if the driver's side guide is broken too.

blackdog314

How did it look when you pulled the valve cover to adjust the valves? If it is the timing chain it will make a very distinct rattling noise when you let off the accelerator. This video is for a 22r but it is the same timing set up so it should help a lot. Good Luck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeEb5...ayer_embedded#!

Fenris

No, it's not overheating. The timing is off. I took this photo using the timing light as the flash - you can see the timing marks: http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/...imingmarks.jpg
The engine wasn't completely warm and the idle was at 1800-2000 rpm, which is where it always idles since it went TU. The drivers side timing chain guide is broken: http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/...chainguide.jpg The passenger side guide is intact: http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/...chainguide.jpg I imagine that the chain is supposed to stay pretty tight? Well, it's not - there's a lot of slack in it. I'm approximating that I can move it side to side by a good 1/2". Also, I checked the TPS using the method described here: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml I checked the stop screw. My dashpot is a static bellows with no vacuum or electrical connections. If you look at Table 1, I made the measurements as described and got the following readings: 1) 20 ohms, 2) 12 ohms, 3) open, 4) 2.95 k ohms, 5) 3.68 k ohms. Does this mean that the TPS is shot? I didn't remove it when I pulled the throttle body and gave it a carb cleaner & gasoline bath. While I didn't immerse it, I'm sure it got wet. It may have gotten wet before with carb cleaner as I've sprayed out the throttle body before.

2012MongolRally

Check out irab88 build, he had a lot of great upfront work he did making it clear about what broken timing chain guides look like, and with slack you said you have in the chain it might be that.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...d-pics-232381/

Check out my timing chain pictures assembly at my build thread for my rally truck if that helps too. I know I read that the driver side part of the chain should move 1/16 of inch. Do you see any railroad tracks in the timing cover? Best of luck

blackdog314

Slack like that means it is time to change it. Sounds like you have the skills. better to get it done now than later.

Fenris

That video could have been shot under my hood. The timing chain moves the same amount, and yes, there are railroad tracks starting in the drivers side of the cover. Yeah, it's time to change it then. I'll look for the guide I saw on doing it without pulling the head. From what I've read, I'll go to Engnbldr.com and get the kit with the oil and water pumps. Eventually, I want to pull the engine and rebuild it to have a few more ponies than stock. I only want to do it once though and I need to save my pennies for awhile before I can afford the machine shop and the rest of the parts. What do you guys think about the TPS?

blackdog314

Test # 2 & 4 are out of range but it might still be working. Jump the EFI check connector and if it idles down audibly when warm as described in the 4crawler write up then it is probably fine.

7m4x4dude

Just pull the head. ...



Cause when u ruin the head gasket trying to squeeze it back together you'll kick your self very hard.

Also dont miss the bolt covered in a pudle of oil in the head attatching to the timming cover.

Fenris

Well, I just ordered the kit with the chain, steel guide, oil pump, water pump and cover from Ted at Engnbldr.com. Cost = $147 w/ "free" shipping. Their site is working again, although not perfectly. Some pages take a couple reloads to get them to pop. Also ordered some FIPK to glue everything back together with. I guess I will pull the head. I may as well see what it looks like while I have things torn down. I bought those torque wrenches just before all this happened with the intent of doing a rebuild fairly soon and also to work on the other car. I guess it's kinda like washing your car to get it to rain...

7m4x4dude

Lol yup might as well surface your head while u have it off to make sure its smooth and flat..its only 45a in most shops.

angrybob

If you are thinking about an engine rebuild in the future or you do not have a head gasket leak, you do not need to pull the head.

You have to pull the head OR the oil pan but not both for the timing cover/chain/water pump/oil pump rebuild. In fact I would recommend that you leave the HG alone if you've never overheated the engine.

You need to remove the oil pan to clean out the 2/3 of you chain guides that are sitting in the bottom of it You can easily lower the front diff by removing the front mount bolt and loosening the two axial mounts and it'll drop enough to remove the oil pan. Its a PITA to get the pan loose from the block due to the FIPG. Just cut it all the way around as best you can.

Upon reassembly, the oil pan is the last thing to go on. If you install the oil pan before the timing cover, you will have to sandwich the timing cover btwn the head and the oil pan...likely you screw up the HG doing so.

I short, save some time and money if you are planning to rebuild the engine and pull the oil pan only...leave the head alone if its fine now.

Good luck.

Stuwy123

iTrader: (1)

I could not drop the oil pan without dropping the entire diff out. Re-installing it with FIPG without getting it everywhere was impossible without dropping the diff.

Stuwy123

iTrader: (1)

Isn't the compression supposed to be at least 80 psi? ....

7m4x4dude

No more then 14psii difference between any cylinder and in the range of 135-180 if you get low numbers check to see if your cam timming is correct.
if it is you may have a leaking head gasket, a bad valve, cracked head or block or just worn rings.
you can add a.cap full of oil to each cylinder and retest doing so will give you an idea if.its the rings or not.

drew303

not a bad vid...

Only I disagree with his adamant advice about using a steel backed guide. The Plastic guides are absolutely fine and will last the entire proper lifespan of the chain. In otherwords if the guides broke or worn through you're overdue for a new chain anyway! I've had a steel backed guide snap in the same place as the plastic guide (prematurely, after about 2000 miles) so its really NOT important to spend extra $ on steel guides.

Fenris

Well, I finally got the timing chain fixed. I had to remove the front cross member and lower the front differential to get the oil pan out. There were bits of the driver's side chain guide in there and also some bits of aluminium from the timing cover that the chain had ground off. There is a fairing on the inside of the cover that shrouds the chain as it goes around the bottom side of the crank sprocket - well, there WAS as fairing. It's all back together and started on the first crank. I had to re-stab the distributor as it was off one tooth. I also replaced the vacuum hoses again - all of the 3mm ones. The Spectre brand silicone tubing was supposed to be 3mm ID, but it's too big to have a snug fit. I flushed the cooling system and refilled it, burped it and added a can of water pump lube. I added Seafoam to the oil and gas, so I'll change the oil after a few hundred miles. The idle adjust screw does nothing. I removed it from the throttle body and cleaned it all out - still no effect. Deceleration damper bellows and throttle butterfly are set correctly. TPS checks out ok and I set it's position with a DVM and the instructions from LCE. Regardless, it's idling at 1200-1300 cold and 800 - 900 hot. I'm hearing what sounds like a bad bearing which is coming from the PS pump area. I can't isolate the noise with a stethoscope and I did replace the upper idler pulley - it wasn't that, of course. The other issue I have is that when I took it for a test drive, the front end has a really bad vibration / shimmy when I get over 20 mph. I've rechecked all of the bolts and lug nuts and it still shimmies. Is it possible that I buggered the alignment when I removed the frame cross member?

93yota22re

Should the chain have any slack?

After warming up the engine I took off the valve cover to check valve lash. While im there i take a look at the timing chain and notice it has about an inch of play on the driver side. After turning the crank by hand to reach top dead center my chain has no slack in it.

Is this normal?

Yes, the chain guides are all in one piece and still there.

Please help im chasing down a noise thats driving me crazy.

Fenris

After I replaced my chain, it had very little slack. Perhaps your tensioner isn't working correctly? Either the friction pad is worn, or there's enough crud in the oil system that the oil feed to it is plugged or restricted. The system is designed so that when you accelerate, the oil pressure increases and the tensioner increases tension on the timing chain. Look down the inside of the timing cover on the driver's side. Use a flashlight. Do you see any 'train tracks' in the metal where the chain might be hitting the inside of the timing cover? If so, you could try flushing the oil system with GUNK or Seafoam or something. Maybe that would help, but I tend to doubt it. The last thing you want is for the timing chain to break or skip to the point that the valves and pistons collide while the engine is running. The next cheery scenario is that the timing chain wears a hole in the timing cover and antifreeze comes pouring through to mix with the oil.

93yota22re

Thanks for the quick reply. The engine is freshly rebuilt all new timing kit so no train tracks yet. I understand that the tensioner increases pressure with oil pressure i guess my question is weather or not there should ever be that much slack in the chain. The tensioner has a spring in it as well from what i recall. It does take up slack if i turn the crank by hand im worried that when i first opened the valve cover there was about an inch of slack and im not sure if thats normal or acceptable.

Thanks again for any help or comparisons any one has to offer.

Fenris, you said it had very little slack on driver side after replacing chain. are we talking at most 1/16 or 1/2 an inch? sorry to be picky just worried about my truck.