Valve clatter

Hey guys, heres whats goin on... The truck starts right up in the morning and runs fine (aside from the chain and valve noise).The problem happens when I shut the truck down for 10 or 15 minutes and restart it. It does fire right away, but it stumbles and the oil light stays on for a few extra seconds, until I get on the throttle alittle..I checked vac lines, and cold start injector and they are fine. I did a compression test and i was able to get all cylinders to hit inbetween 150-160, and there is no oil/coolant mixing at all...I just can help to think it's coolant leaking into the cylinders and causing the misfire shake..I also get what looks like typical condensation smoke,even when the truck is started warm? Its not white, and it doesnt "poof" out, it just flows out normally like it was a winter morning. it does smell alittle different than most exaust smoke, for the first 10 seconds or so; as if somthing is burning off...

Im gonna be doing the chain next week and I really wanna figure this out so I can fix the problem while Im in there..... ANY IDEAS???

Thanks - C Mac

brian2sun

Sounds more like a sticky valve issue than a HG to me. How about some info on the truck, remember we don't know if you have a '79 or a 2011. Engine? 4x4 or 4x2? Taco/pickup or 4runner?

Valve clatter

Yea sorry I didnt list the year...Its an 89 with the 22re, with over 200k and no major work that I know of..

I have heard maybee worn valve guides/seals... But if there were oil in the cylinder wouldn't that burn a darker color smoke?..... I know it needs some valve work, but I never really considered the misfire/shake would be caused by valves, but Im no expert...

What are your thoughts???

Thanks

C-MAC

greatskiiiier

bump for you

xxxtreme22r

what about a bad cold start time switch?

Valve clatter

I unpluged the cold start and started it hot a few times over the course of an hour with no change in starting stumble...? U think it could be a head gasket? Like i said I have NO other HG Symtoms, other than this hot start shake, and alittle condensation looking exaust somtimes.... Ideas?

xxxtreme22r

are you pulling the plugs to see if they are wet when it stumbles or right before you think it's gonna stumble? What plugs do you have in there? What is the timing doing when it stumbles is it where it should be or is it different? Have you checked the water temp sensor as well? the one for the ECU not the one for the gauge. If it's not reading correctly ie 10-15 degrees off, the engine will try to run like it's warm when it's not. Sometimes actually causing it to be hard to start. In addition to that, if the coolant level is low to where the temp sensor is not covered then the engine will also stumble.

I am gonna have to dig up 92 toys first start video for you to see if yours is starting when warm the same way his did. Only difference is his was cold. First start after headgasket replacement.

cubslover

Another vote for sticky, carboned valves.

If it needs valve work, do it first and eliminate any doubt.

xxxtreme22r

could be, again what do the plugs look like.

myyota

If your worried about the head gasket and your thinking about doing the timing chain, then just pull the head at the same time and have it checked and rebuilt and put it all back together.

xxxtreme22r

ok as promised, sorry about the audio quality, but hopefully you can hear it. Yous might be able to hear the slight miss of the engine on first start through a few seconds in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9boUpqRuZ8

Valve clatter

The plugs are "ash fouled" white/brown...not dark or wet.. The truck will start eveytime when hot, but once its fires, it stumbles until i give gas.... I just dont wanna take of the head and risk breaking bolts and making a ton or work if the HG is ok.... "If it aint broke don't fix it"... I gotta figure this ˟˟˟˟ out though... EGR? AFM? would the timing being off only effect the truck when hot though?... Im stumped......

myyota

Pull the throttle body and give it a good cleaning and make sure the vacuum ports arn`t plugged, see if that helps. When was the last time you replaced the fuel filter ?.

Valve clatter

Its been a while for the fuel filter, so i will change that pain in the ass.... So you think maybee when its hot its starving for fuel , but when its cold the CSI is giving it enough fuel to run properly?.... I did clean the throttle body recently, but not the vaccum lines... Ill give those a check... Do you also think the sticky/leaky valves could cause the hot start problem???

Valve clatter

bump it up....

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

BUMPITY-CLICKITY-CLACK-BUMP! lol........

You can eliminate your EGR as an issue by blocking it off with a piece of soda can. Just loosen the bolts, slide it in there between the plenum and EGR and then start it, WHEN WARM, and see if it's still missing.

Also check your VSV on the rear of the head. Unplug the fuel pressure regulator from the VSV and plug it into the Plenum, directly, where the VSV is pulling vacuum. VSV is for Hot Soak.

BVSV also controls the flow to the EGR modulator and if it's toast, it can cause warm issues. When warm, if I remember right, you should be able to pump air into the bottom port of the BVSV and read it on a gauge that's connected to the top port. When cold, it shouldn't allow any vacuum through.(It's a Bi-metallic Switching Valve that opens and closes according to coolant temp).

Warm rough idle COULD also be vacuum leak that's increased by expansion of parts from heat.

AFM can but is not likely to do what you're experiencing. Test it with Multi-meter to be sure. If it's Ambient Temp. Sensor is freaking out, it can cause issues of running to lean or rich because of whatever temp. it believes the "AIR TEMP" is.

O2 sensor on mine was causing issues only when the rig was warm. Another easy test with a Multi-Meter and FSM.

As XXXtreme said, Coolant Temp Sensor can also cause issues on warm starts if it's taking a left when it should go right(if you know what I mean, lol).

Valves or CAM? YES, .... With my bad CAM, my truck would run pretty nice when cold, but when everything warmed up, it appeared to be a Sensor related issue, but it was not.... it would run WAY chunkier when warm at idle. Tod at engnbldr, as well as TED(Tod's Pops), thought my issue was Valve related..... And they said that the Valve being sticky or leaking could cause the same issues as what ended up being my CAM. With this issue, it was pretty much a problem all the time. Even when just barely going into operating temp.... So a leak down and compression test might be in order as well. They also have tests for verifying a leaking HG that are even more in depth.

Best wishes, Valve Clatter, lol....

Mark

Valve clatter

Been trying to nail this one down for a while.. I got an 89 22re, that starts and runs normally, until I shut it down after its gotten hot and restart it. After about 10 minutes of sitting after its been hot, it will stumble when started and stay at a low idle until you get on the gas a little... It doesn't stall or anything, but the oil light stays on a few extra seconds and the truck shakes, as if its barely got enough fuel or something.... I forgot to say, but the same thing happens when the A/C is on... The engine will stay running but it just shakes badly and idles between 400-500.... I have checked for vac leaks, and there are non.... Cold start injector is working fine.. Compression is 160-165 on all cylinders...I have new plugs, distributor, air cleaner... Ive been told to look at EGR, 02, and coolant temp sensor... Has anyone dealt with these symptoms before??? As I said its ONLY happens when the engine is started after its been sitting HOT for a few minutes, or when the a/c is on. Help me end this HORSE CRAP!

Thanks Guys....

BajaRunner

This seems like a pretty common issue. I've had luck with cleaning out the idle air control valve (IACV) that sits right beneath the throttle body. The valve will sometimes clog with gunk. Cleaning it out with carb cleaner works well.

Other than that, check to make sure the resistances are correct in the engine coolant temp sensor (ECT), via the FSM located here:
http://ncttora.com/fsm/1993/engine/40engineco.pdf

I'm concerned about the oil light staying on longer though....

myyota

Pull the throttle body and give it a good cleaning, also make sure the vacuum ports arn`t plugged.

Valve clatter

Ive talked about this before, but I still cannot figure out what is causing this problem..Here it is...

(89 22re-200k)Engine starts and runs smooth and strong when cold and during idle. But when it has gotten up to operating temp, shut off for 10 minutes(Going into a deli), then restarted, it acts up. It will start right up, but the idle will be low (450) and the engine will shake a little until I get on the gas, then it clears up. I notice the exhaust smells a little weird, but it doesn't smoke, aside from normal condensation and cold days. I thought maybe antifreeze was getting into the cylinder, but compression is good, and all fluids are clean and normal. It seems like it must be temp related, but I can't seem to get a proper diagnosis...

Anyone have a similar poblem? Any ideas how to narrow this down? HELP!!!