Originally Posted by 89macrunner

didnt they try this on mythbusters and it did absoutely nothing?

Originally Posted by renofox

I am currently working on adding a HOD (hydrogen on demand) system to my 92 4runner.
If you are not familiar with this technology please check out 'water4gas' or google search 'HHO'. there is a decent amount of information out there.

I am not a mechanic but I can follow directions. I'm using the manuals from water4gas to modify my truck.. where i'm at.

- I built the device that generates the HHO gas. pretty cool. this is not electrolysis, it has something to do with disassociating electrons or wave patterns. electrolysis takes a lot more electricity. it's a simple jar with vacuum hoses pumping the gas into the air intake or the intake manifold.

- essentially the HHO leaked into the air intake causes a much more efficient explosion (ran thru a bubbler of water to cool the engine).



- now that my explosions are extremely efficient, i have no need for such rich gas. so the next step is to trick the vehicle into running lean. there are 2 things to consider here, O2 sensors and the Mass Airflow Sensor (VAFM box thinggy). the manual i have for water4gas uses a MAP sensor which is different.

- the addition of the HHO makes the exhaust more oxygen rich i'm guessing? I don't fully understand how to trick or adjust the VAFM

OK, HELP!

- where would be the ideal place to pump in the HHO gas, i'm guessing in front of the VAFM so it can be 'sensed'
- how do I trick the 2 (i think) O2 sensors to keep the truck running lean?

I realize very few people have boldly gone where no, uh, alternative fuel has gone before, but this is my truck, i love it and I'll be danmed if i don't try to get the 60% fuel economy out of this system. I was thinking if i could get this going it would be superfreak to get a truck running on just HHO. It's been done by Daniel Dingle, check out the link http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...00534056295175 theres been a few out there. another by STANLEY MEYER.


this is all crazy suppressed cutting edge fun. I joined the forum to try and see what's if we put our heads together. I have a camera & i figure I would document the process on this truck with pictures & videos.

If anybody needs 'more info' on the install process, just ask. I found this guy a great resource so far http://www.livevideo.com/byte312 How supercool would you be if you had a 3.slow that got better pickup & 40mpg+???

Originally Posted by notanymore

HHO? last time i checked they called that water

the one thing im wondering is, how does the engine work harder when there is more of an electrical draw? i mean the alternator is still spinning just the same

Originally Posted by Team420

Yes the alternator is spinning constantly, however there is a clutch that kicks in when the batt drops below a certain voltage, just because its spinning does not mean its always producing power. I have been thinking about ways to make my engine more efficient also, and as someone has posted already, it would seem the best way to generate more energy would be from the wasted energy we already have HEAT!! I have even thought about an electro magnetic type engine, but then you get into the whole perpetual motion thingy... please post how this works out!

Originally Posted by MMA_Alex

huh? no its always producing power when its spinning so long as there is some voltage in your batt to get 'er started. the voltage regulator controls the strength of the electo mags which creates more/less amperage based on demand, which in turn regulates the voltage (ohm's law)...thats a really simplified explanation, but its always producing power when spinning.

just to give you an idea of the engine power required:
60amp(peak) x 14 volts = 840 watts
assuming that it produces electricity off the engine @ 100% efficiency (it doesn't) it takes about 1.12 hp

theres a reason they dont try to extract extra heat energy from the exhaust. its not worth the weight added. If you look at ships they typically have an extra boiler system that takes some of the waste heat out of the stack.

Originally Posted by irish80prf

Ok everyone has been talking about how the alternator works and how much "fuel it uses, to create the energy needed" but does anyone know how much energy is actually needed to produce hydrogen gas? is it enough that it would actually run the alternator that much more. I know I started the alternator talk so I guess I'll chip in a bit more. My thinking is, assuming the hho gas can replace some of the gasoline needed and it doesn't take that much energy to produce the gas then you could in theory improve your gas mileage some. even if the improved mpg is just from your engine running leaner, well I guess that is the whole theory behind this.

leaner running engine+substituting hho for the decreased gas input=improved MPG

oh and I think some people are thinking H2O and HHO are the same thing, they are not. HHO is water in it's gaseous form, after the 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen molecules have been separated.

Originally Posted by Victor

So after about ten minutes of thinking I don't think this HOD stuff would work.

First problem - while you can heat water with electricity it isn't that easy to separate the hydrogen-oxygen bond. You are creating water vapor. Change of state but nonetheless still water.

Originally Posted by Victor

Second - Hydrogen is highly flamable. An engine needs to be designed to inject very specific amounts of H+ if it is going to use this as a fuel.

Originally Posted by Victor

third - Hydrogen as an ion will rapidly bind to whatever is available. So you inject it into your combustion chamber - then add the injected fuel - and very likely a lot of it will recombine with the available oxygen and the fuel to change the chemicals. It won't remain by itself long enough to be an effiecient fuel. Under pressure it will want to recombine even faster. so...

Originally Posted by Victor

This is why the car companies are making hydrogen fuel specific vehicles. Without introducing any other chemicals into the combustion process then yes we can get combustion.