brant914

did I mess up my timing chain job?

first off I've never even driven a toyota truck before until today, so I don't know what "normal" is exactly supposed to feel like.

a couple of months ago I bought a 1986 4x4 automatic with a blown head gasket.
I started researching how to change the gasket and learned that a lot of things needed to be done at the same time. I bought all of my parts through enginbldr, and did the timing chain with updates, brand new head, all of the covers and pumps, all belts, hoses, and filters, did the O2 sensor too.

so last night I start the truck and it starts right up. After its warm I proceed to do the valve adjustment and then final timing. I learned about jumping the timing signal. Truck starts up and idles fine.

I had double and even tripple checked the timing chain during assembly. But unfortunately when I go to time the ignition instead of "0" degree's it more like "-5" degree's on the engnbldr housing. (the housing doesn't have numbers but does have indents where the numbers should be)

I can't adjust the distributor enough to get to 5 positive degree's. So I re-indexed the distributor each direction thinking I may have just messed up the install. Well in one notch it won't start, and when I go to the other notch of 5 positive, its knocking and obviously mis timed... barely runs

So I decide to put it back where it runs well at negative 5 degree's and button everything up for a test drive to see.

So today is my first ever drive in the truck. it runs well. It has power all the way to its shift points (automatic tranny) nothing feels weird.

BUT..... at throttle tip in there is a slight rattly sound between 900 - 1200 rpm. I'm not sure if this is "ping" or detonation. Its very slight and I can only hear it with the window down at low speed. Almost a slight diesel sound or rattle.

I took the valve cover off and put the bottom crank pulley back to TDC.
I verified TDC with the correct rockers/valves loose.
When the pulley mark is exactly at TDC, the timing chain shiny spot is in the correct notch of splitting the top timing gear dot.

The dot is not exactly straight up and down. Instead of (zero degree's) straight up, it is more like 2degree's counterclockwise... or 2 degrees away from straight up. But still the chain is in the shiny link.

when I rotate the crank pulley to bring the upper timing pulley exactly straight up... the bottom crank pulley moves from "zero" to about 5 degrees

1) did I screw up... did I somehow get the chain off 1 notch?
2) is the slight dieseling sound timing or could it just be old gas (truck sat for 6 months)
3) if I did screw up, can I take the upper timing gear loose and somenhow compress the tensioners enough to reorient things without pulling every thing all over again?


Please lend your 2 cents.
this job took me 2 months the first time and I'm afraid I screwed the pooch
help

thanks in advance
brant

the_supernerd

Try retarding the timing a couple degrees and see if the noise goes away. Also check your TPS. They go out and have a direct effect on timing, or the TPS might just need to be adjusted.

brant914

I'll retard it this morning and try it

I'll also research the TPS procedure and get right on it.

I was thrown off that I couldn't adjust the running timing to Zero... how does the TPS retard the timing

Thank you!
I'll go search the TPS
brant

xxxtreme22r

if you can't get the distributor to timing then the distributor is a tooth or two off. Pull the distributor out and make sure when you put it in it's pointing at #1 cyl TDC compression stroke.

toyotaPmanager

another possibilty is that the balancer has spun on the rubber. Not very common with toyota but have seen it happen. although I cant remember the 22re being mounted on rubber.

xxxtreme22r

they will seperate though, two people on here within the past few months have had that issue. but it showed up as a wondering timing mark, one being completely loose to where the timing mark was rotating counter clockwise around the balancer.

brant914

I pulled the distributor and re- "clocked" it once in each direction.
when I turned it one tooth back the truck wouldn't start, when I turned it one tooth forward I was able (barley) to start the truck and the timing mark was at 5degree's, but it was running so crappy and knocking-banging, practically dying

with the timing mark wrong (below zeor degree's timing) the truck idles smoothly and runs well.

The fact that I can't get the timing mark to zero worries more than the slight rattle-ping at 1000 rpm tip in.

I'll go check my old cover and new cover to make sure the placement of the degree marks aren't moved over on the actual physical cover

toyotapmanager: do you mean the crank wheel being mounted in rubber? I'll look

thank you again
I'm very very greatful everyone!

brant914

when I pull the distributor I'll check that the gear isn't seperated from the shaft...

my timing is actually rock solid, just at negative 5 degree's instead of positive 5 degree's. when I jump the test connector (as the directions indicate to do for setting timing) the timing moves about 5 degree's as I think it is supposed to.

so running and not jumped its at zero, smooth and steady
jumped its at negative 5

xxxtreme22r

if it doesn't run with indicated timing correctly set, it's not the timing, keep it where it's supposed to be 5 BTDC jumper in and look elsewhere. Unless it's the crank pulley itself.

You sure the spark plug wires aren't mixed up?

brant914

I'll go out in about a half hour and double check the plug wires too... (although it runs smoothly, ildles nice and actually runs way too good to be a plug wire)

There is nothing wrong with the way it runs except:
1) the timing mark appears 5 degrees wrong
2) a slight rattle sound at throttle tip in, but still the motor runs smoothly and no lag or stumble


If the timing is correct on the chain what else should I check (tps and crank pulley are on the list)

is there a way to pull the valve cover and verify the timing chain on the bottom side (my upper dot is in the middle of the shiney link on the cam gear)

anything else I should check

what would the timing mark look like if the bottom gear was not correct?

toyotaPmanager

I am speaking of the pulley that runs your drive belts that has the mark on it to time it with the timing indicator.

the_supernerd

When you did the head gasket, did you have the head machined down? I know this can effect the position of the timing chain slightly. I do not know enough about it to know if this is the cause for your symptoms. Maybe someone else here has some experience with it. An adjustable cam gear would fix that.

Here is a link to degreeing in the cam properly and finding true TDC regardless of where the pulley marks are:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cam_degreeing/

brant914

whew...
success..

I'm embaressed to admit it
but I spent all afternoon in the garage going over it step by step

pulled the valve cover again, pulled the distributor, the chain looks good.

put it all back together and guess what
did I mention I'm embarrased and stupid...
My adjustable timing light was off a few degree's from zero

I retimed it (with the light set to zero) and no more ping at step in...

now I've got an oil leak
don't know if I caused it from the power wash (trying to clean off the anti-freeze and made something worse)

I'll start another thread
thank you a ton everyone
I'm sorry I wasted your time
but I'm learning from you
and now I've still got to do the TPS

brant

xxxtreme22r

lol ya know, I was gonna mention that too, but I was like nah, every time I do the person has a non adjustable. lol.

Larz28

according to 22re performance youtube videos, Trucks with EFI (22RE) are set at -5 TDC. The 22R's with carbeurators, are set to 0 TDC. So if your truck has EFI, you were doing it right all along and didn't even know it.