EWAYota

(have searched)

I'm going to be ordering a cam (either Comp Cam 252S or Erson 268) early next week. Both are designed to help improve low end torque from idle to roughly 4500 rpms. I'm looking for a header that would help improve low end as well. I've looked at LCE headers and really like them, but I've heard that they're headers provide more top end then low. I'm not really sure what to look for in headers for the torque range that I'm looking for. 4-1 or Tri-Y design.
I don't mind NWOR's headers, but I'm hesitate to order from them with the reputation they have.

What am I looking for? Downey, LCE, NWOR, Thorley, Hedman, TRD?

The plan is to run the cam, new headers with 2" piping back to a magnaflow 40 muffler, then 2 1/4" out.

Elton

i got a custom intake pipe with a k&n fipk lce header 2-1/4 exhaust i can do 60mph uphill where before i couldint even hold 50mph so i would say the header is will worth the money i spent

EWAYota

I agree LCE makes good headers as I've never heard a complaint about them, but from what I've heard is that they are designed for more mid-high end than low. If I'm wrong then great, I was just curious to know if some headers are designed for low end or high end, since there appears to be 2 different header designs with the 4 into 1 and the Tri-Y design.

CoedNaked

IF you want a little more torque out of headers, also consider restricting the exhaust pipe a bit, but maybe going with a high flow muffler.

For instance on the 3vze headers, most guys when the headers come together to one pipe, will go with a 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" pipe. I think most go with 2 1/4". Go with the smaller pipe size, so a 2 1/4" with a high quality, high flow muffler. IF you want to rev it for more power, then guys should go with the 2 1/2", as examples. You might even be able to get away with a graduated system. TAking this example, have the pipes come together and stick with 2" til the cat, then bump it up to 2 1/4" through the muffler out. That way you keep the back pressure, but still have the better flow characteristics of the exhaust from the headers (which help scavenging accross the power band) and from the higher flow muffler. Keep in mind these are just examples for the 3vze V6. The pipe sizes for different engines obviously will require different exhaust pipe sizes.

EWAYota

Thats exactly what I had planned on doing, its just trying to figure out which header is the right choice. Still trying to figure out the diff. between the two header styles.

This is from what I have seen, not sure if its correct though:
LCE uses a 4 into 1
NWOR uses a Tri-Y
Thorley uses a 4 into 1
Downey uses a 4 into 1
TRD uses 4 into 1

From what I've read, the Tri-Y is designed to maximize low to mid torque and HP (nwor web-site). Whats the design purpose for the 4 into 1. Are these designed to help the complete torque range?

aviator

If you are looking for cams there's a thread on here from a guy up in vancouver who's doing custom cams for a sweet price. sounds like he's getting good results too. If I find the thread again I'll post it for you. Aviator

Thread is S2S 3VZ E cam ... by weasy2k

motoracer47

4 into 1 is strictly for high rpm power. the tri-y system will be the best for torque production. what it all comes down to is sound wave tuning. maximum power with headers is achieved when the negative pressure wave from a merge of 2 or more pipes(really, has to do with diameter change) is reflected back to the exhaust valve as its starting to close, increasing the scavaging effect. if they headers are tuned really trick, the wave will hit during valve overlap period, actually pulling in more intake charge than what normally could be pulled in.(think mild forced induction, very mild) only problem, is that the timing of this wave is based on rpms, thats why headers make there maximum gains of a narrow rpm band. not saying you will not pick up power on all points of the power band, just that the maximum effeceincy is acheived usually over about a 1k-1500rpm range, and where that range is,low down or high up in the rpms, is a funtion of many things, including tri-y or 4into1, on tri-ys, how long the primaries and secondaries are, ect ect ect, and much more ect. theres a book out stricktly on header design, and its like 300 pages!!!its really much more complex than what ive said, with tons of formulas i would have no idea how to compute, but thats the basics. brad

javadoody

i've been impressed with the nwor's i picked up on ebay (obviously didn't have to deal with them directly), cat back also helped. as brad said, they've definitely increased the low end torque. maximize whichever you get with an airbox mod however. it's been my plan to add a cam to finish bringing the torque range down so i'd appreciate you keeping us updated on how well it works.

EWAYota

Motor and Java, thanks for the info, thats just what I was looking for.

I'm waiting on some info on the Comp Cam 252S, as well as the Erson 268 cam, should have the cam ordered monday... Then, I'll be choosing a header, but I'm leaning towards NWOR for the Tri-Y, just gonna have it ceramically coated.

I've already done the deckplate so thats out of the way.....Just might be a while after the cam's in to finish the exhaust. Gonna order all the parts then take it in and have all the piping tucked up high.

taikowaza

I am having so much trouble deciding what to do about headers/echaust for my 3.0L v6.

I have narrowed it down to either THorley or Downey.
Turns out that the LCE header for this engine is a downey afterall.
NWOR is way too expensive and don't like service.

Thorley makes their own headers and I learned this is the same design as the TRD.
Downey does not manufacture their own headers, they outsource and have used several suppliers. Several people have remarked that they are not sure if the latest batch is the same quality-apparently it changes.

I have been told that both use 14guage which is good.
ceramic is a must for both and after a lot of searching the best I can find is $500 each. However, this price includes the downey crossover, while I have been told that the Thorley does not NEED a crossover.

A talk with a shop however said that I would need a crossover anyway.

for around $1000 (give or take a hundred) shipped I was able to come up with 2 package prices:

The package price with Thorley comes with a ceramic header, jardine exhaust. this is a 2 1/4 catback which I hear sounds awesome. I would need to buy a cat. no crossover

My package price with Downey comes with a ceramic header, full downey exhaust 2 1/2 inch (which they say is a high-end magnaflow) and crossover. I do not know how the downey exhaust sounds.

My question- which would you rather have??
A downey ceramic header with crossover and downey full exhaust including cat.

or a thorley ceramic header (no crossover) with a jardine (jordine?) cat-back exhaust and needing to buy a cat (please tell me what you recommend)

THANKS A LOT!!!!!!!!!

I am so ready to finish with all this searching...thanks
please email me seperately if you can as well, I will get the mail faster
teknitrox@mac.com

toyotaoffroad91

stay far away from downey exhausts its all 2 1/2 piping and sound very ricey. however i have a downey ceramic header that is awsome. there exhaust system is cut to fit and really dont fit to well it drops the muffler way below the frame. i took my system out a month after i got it and routed 2 1/4 cat back with a flowtech raptor muffler

taikowaza

Thanks for your reply!!!!!!!
Glad to know that I should stay away from the Downey Exhaust.
Thanks for the hint that it sounds ricey, all I needed to know.

A lot of people are saying that the Downey ceramic header and the Thorley ceramic look identical. According to them, both are made with 14 guage steel so that should be the same. I was told that the Thorley does not need any crossover, but my mechanic told me that he'd have to make one. I am not sure who to believe. Downey of course sells their crossover seperately (part 17430) but Thorley does not, saying it is unnecessary.

I am perhaps leaning towards the Thorley ceramic and Jardine 2 1/4inch cat-back exhaust combo. If anyone has this I would love to hear your thoughts.
There are some jardine reviews here of people who seem satisfied, but I had never heard of the company. If anyone has a jardine I would like to hear your opinion. I am thinking of buying soon and don't want to regret this later because it is a big investment as you know.

If I get the jardine cat-back I will have to buy a cat and would like to know what matches this exhaust nicely. I was told by Thorley that I should use a stock cat but they are listing for over 500 on 1sttoyotaparts.com which I found ridiculous. I found carsounds on ebay for $60 but don't know what size I'll need for the jardines.

A lot of questions, thanks Yotatech!!!!!!!

AH64ID

From what I have found the Thorley is the TRD header, and the thorley is a Tri-Y, so that makes the TRD a Tri-Y. From what I know about TRD I am guessing that the Tri-Y might be the way to go. But on the other hand i had a Downey on my last rig, and it was great....

Cams on the other had...I wont do that mod again, I didnt notice enough power the the fuel mpg lost.

AH64ID

Here is what Thorly sent me in an e-mail

"These are very similar to the TRD header except for the fact that TRD specs out cast flanges and we use billet steel. The header is designed for mid to upper RPM but is still a vast improvement at low rpm."

NDrunner

Will you actually see a noticable increase with headers on a 3.0? I am getting so sick of my gutless 3.slow that im actually thinking of trading it in for a Heep

Snorkeldepth

I have the Jardine prototype 2 1/4" cat-back exhaust for my truck with std. cab and short bed. After Downey sold me theirs and I explained to them that it would never fit they sent me to Jardine, the manufacturer. Jardine used my truck to make the pattern and installed a free exhaust for my trouble. I've been pretty happy with the system. It's hard to quantify throttle response and power improvements. It sounds good. The chrome exhaust tip has rusted and I can't seem to keep one of the connections tight at the moment. I put a Magnaflow cat on about a year ago. I'll be installing Downey ceramic headers on my new 3.0 in a few weeks. I decided to go with a custom crossover from a local muffler shop . . . hmmm maybe I'll give Jardine a call and see if they want to design a crossover??? Good luck!

taikowaza

What Magnaflow cat should I get for the Jardine exhaust for the 3.0 v6?
(ordered it with Thorley ceramic headers for a great deal of 740 shipped)

Snorkeldepth

I got the stock replacement that bolts to the factory mounting positions. In retrospect I wish I'd waited and got the one without the bolt on brackets and had it welded up when I install the headers. I got mine from Downey. But, I'm not endorsing them after running up against their inflexible 20% restocking fee policy after I've been their customer for many years. There are retailers who offer better prices and customer service to get the Cat from. I don't have the model number of my cat handy. If you need it I can find it.

AH64ID

http://www.car-sound.com/catalog/af_...icleMakeID=259

Go from here to get a part number, then I have found the best prices at Summit... Downey uses the 94000 series on the universal fit.

taikowaza

Yes! Thanks a lot for the info 4x4 and snorkel!! I am really looking forward to hearing this exhaust!!!
question: would you go with the universal fit or the directfit for the jardine?
directfit looks like it only has a 2inch flange while the universal can be purchased with 2 and a quarter, 2 and a half, etc.

I do not know for sure but I think that I remember reading that the jardine is 2 1/4. does that mean that I definitely need the universalfit 2 1/4 cat?
(thanks)
TW

so far it looks like part number 91005- do you concur? (catch me if you can quote!)