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Failed smog in CA :(

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Old 05-26-2012, 11:35 AM
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Hey Lankan... ALWAYS great to have a ASE-TECH on your side! Good of you to chime in, 854x4!

If you read my smog thread, Lankan, you'd see(pretty sure I posted a video) how I tested the EGR for vacuum with a gauge and pump. Simply getting it to drop/stall with vacuum applied does NOT tell you "EGR is good, look elsewhere"... That's one of the first things the FSM covers in testing things, therein, people just miss that part or misread it, I believe. I DID, after all! lol.


Now, .... KILL that Gremlin, LANKAN! lol.
Old 05-26-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Soul_keeper
My truck just failed smog today in CA

they said it's running too rich ...
CO(%) was high
Passed on my second try

here is what 1 turn on the fuel/air mixture screw does (right):
Old 05-26-2012, 12:22 PM
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Hey, Mista, .... dat pictcha is makin me dizzy! lol... JK Soulkeeper, GREAT NEWS!

BTW, .... I'm guessing "One turn clockwise/more closed"???? >>>> (RIGHT), meaning, righty tighty? lol.
Old 05-26-2012, 04:20 PM
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yes, right to lean it out
it failed because it was running "too rich"

funny how the screw is called "idle mixture" when it affects more than just idle.
Old 05-26-2012, 11:33 PM
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I gotcha, SK, ... was just messin round. My problem was high NOX... so that would have done nothing but worsen my situation, most likely(leaning it out worse and raising internal combustion temps)... Yeah, that thing can get REALLY plugged up with CARBON, too!
Old 05-27-2012, 08:08 AM
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Got some good and bad news. Just drove over 300 miles from palm springs, CA to Scotsdale, AZ. Conditions were:

1) average speed: 75-80mph
2) engine rpm between 2750-3000 the whole way
3) Ac on
4) all stock (intake/exhaust)

Good news is that the check engine light did not come on (since i installed the new O2 sensor). Bad news is that its getting only 15mpg on the highway!! Is there something wrong, and if so, any adjustments i can make for a more econimical drive back on monday? or am i driving too fast?? Hope everyone is having a good weekend!
Old 05-27-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Lankan
Got some good and bad news. Just drove over 300 miles from palm springs, CA to Scotsdale, AZ. Conditions were:

1) average speed: 75-80mph
2) engine rpm between 2750-3000 the whole way
3) Ac on
4) all stock (intake/exhaust)

Good news is that the check engine light did not come on (since i installed the new O2 sensor). Bad news is that its getting only 15mpg on the highway!! Is there something wrong, and if so, any adjustments i can make for a more econimical drive back on monday? or am i driving too fast?? Hope everyone is having a good weekend!
does it feel like it's missing ?
how are your plugs and air filter ?
I find that I get horrible gas mileage when driving fast since i'm geared so low. I can literally be in my highest gear at 35mph. 65 on the freeway is about as high as I push it (can be difficult to restrain myself at times).
Also check your timing if you havn't in awhile.
Old 05-27-2012, 12:29 PM
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70-75 average, all the way to Havasu in my "87!" 22RE and I was getting around 19-21hwy... with the air on much of the way, (Obviously with the air on! LOL...Pffft, it's THE 40hwy IN THE SUMMER!lol). hahaha. Anyway, that was with 4.30 gears on 31's, locked in the rear. I THINK 15 IS BAD, period... but YES, 4.88's or so with 33's COULD bring you down quite a bit, it would surprise you. 2700 rpm on the hwy seems to be the PHAT FARM mileage realm for these... they love it. If that means 65, then there ya go. Sounds like you're still there, right? Try, TRY HARD, to drive 65 all the way back, and WATCH with amazement how much better your mileage is... STILL, ...... 15? That seems VERY low. Then again, .... this is a 3VZE, right? Could be a lil closer to normal with those speeds/AC on/Your set up? I would ESPECIALLY think with a 2WD runner you should be getting a LIL better mileage than that. It's FAR less heavy, few hundred pounds, ya know?

PS> Just so I don't have to go back.... what is the EXACT specs of your rig again? Tires, gears, motor, etc.?
Old 05-27-2012, 03:35 PM
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It's got 31x10.5x15 tires, stock 3vze engine, gears are stock I suppose. That's about it... no mods. I'm thinking it should be getting at least 20mpg!!
Old 05-27-2012, 05:40 PM
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Just thought I would update you guys... need to take that good news from my earlier post back. Was driving around town here in Scottsdale, and the check engine light just came on. Gotta catch this Gremlin somehow!! 15mpg on the highway and @11.7mpg in city driving is ridiculous!!
Old 05-27-2012, 05:56 PM
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Yeah, Lankan... that's not right, no doubt-about-it! Interesting that my mileage is more affected by city driving. I can be LUCKY to get 60miles in the first quarter tank around town... But on the highway? Sometimes the needle is still on the full mark at 80 miles! lol. I KNOW, guys, that's likely got SOME to do with a gunked up fuel level apparatus in my tank... But that doesn't totally explain why it would 'stick' on the hwy more than city? lol. Anyway, I'm CLEARLY getting better MPG's when I can hold her at a steady rpm for some time.... For me it's LOTS better on hwy... for you, not so much, Lankan

You said it's a new Coolant Temp Sensing system?(thinking the 94 VeeZee is a bit different than my old Coolant Temp Sensor on the intake)....

Are you CERTAIN the TPS is adjusted properly? Timing? Dizzy isn't off a tooth? You know, something SEMI-mechanical in that sense?(mechanical OR adjustable at least)???

PS> DO NOT be shamed by eventually having to have a Guru take a look at it and hook it up to a oscilloscope, etc, ok???? Don't wanna see you throwing parts at it, man!

PSS> I would think the 2WD 94 3VZE 4Runner w/31's should be getting around 16City-19/20HWY, no guys? AT LEAST?

PSSS> 'AUTOMATIC'.... that can say A LOT in the mileage dept., Lankan... NOT THIS bad, I would guess... but something. It can also mean you do NOT have 4.10's.... More likely 4.56's or so, at least?(there has to be a thread or "STICKY" on here for that, lol). I believe that auto's had AT LEAST 4.30's in my year models...(86-89).... And eventually they started offering bigger tires/gears accordingly.. BUT, automatics, IIRC, ALWAYS have bigger gears to deal with the naturally lost power in an Automatic/as compared to a standard/5spd.

Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 05-27-2012 at 05:59 PM.
Old 05-27-2012, 07:32 PM
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Yota, I haven't changed the coolant temperature sensor or touched or tested the TPS since I bought it. Not 100% sure either if the timing is right, as I haven't changed it since I bought the vehicle I did change the timing belt, but set it exactly how it was when I got it. Haven't messed around with the distributor either other than adjust it to 10*BTDC. Not sure what the gearing is like... how do I figure that one out?
Old 05-27-2012, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Lankan
Yota, I haven't changed the coolant temperature sensor. Hmmm.... might be worth testing(not sure on your year/model/motor how the testing is done)... You're not throwing a code... but if the CTS is 'WONKY', it can begin to DUMP fuel, and I mean badly. It can also bog, jerk, etc. But more often, it causes high idling and poor fuel economy, because it's almost as if it NEVER goes into closed loop, ya know?

Haven't touched or tested the TPS since I bought it. Hmmmm..... Yet another thing that I BELIEVE can be 'out of adjustment' yet not throw a code. The 02 Sensor reads what it reads, then the ECU adjusts things through the TPS and elsewhere. I'm not sure on your model, but on my 22RE, I can remove the TPS connector and it should NO DOUBT raise the idle/RPM. It's similar to having the check connector in the diagnostic port jumped(E1 and T)....When it's jumped, the idle drops down... if it DOES NOT, something is DEFINITELY wrong, and MOST OFTEN... that ends up pointing to "TPS".

Not 100% sure either if the timing is right, as I haven't changed it since I bought the vehicle. I did change the timing belt, but set it exactly how it was when I got it. Yeah, ... you know, I have changed a few belts. One on a Cressida, couple Camry's, and helped a guy with his 3.4 in his Taco. The belt removal and installation is not always just a matter of "putting it back where you found it".... NOT EVEN saying you've done something wrong... Just would need to read up on the VeeZee as to how much is involved. 92Toy(Jerry) on here was just doing this for his son... I remember him having a BEAR of a time on a couple of "adjustments"(????) Something to do with the tensioner, etc. (?????????) lol. Was it running similarly before you changed the belt? Mileage, etc.? IF things have changed dramatically, SINCE THEN, I would definitely look into that, ya know???

Haven't messed around with the distributor either other than adjust it to 10*BTDC. Not sure what the gearing is like... how do I figure that one out? Again, not sure on the VeeZee(3.0).... I know you're now dealing with 2 cams, heads, etc.... And something to do with the CAM Sensors(??) works with the Distributor to determine spark timing. Therein this process, the igniter is telling the injectors when to fire..... Yeah, I'd have to read up on this one with the 3.0. The last one I did was 3 years ago on my daughters 87 Camry Wagon(16V 4Cyl double overhead cam).... I must have done it right because the mechanic that got it later when it blew a seal said, "Wow, who did this, it's PURRING", lol. Not too much to screw up, as I remember.... and that's why timing belt jobs are MUCH cheaper than timing CHAIN jobs, lol.... But again, I can't be sure on this one. On MY 22RE DIZZY, Lankan..... I have a notch on my dizzy that HAS to fall right before the point that it engages with the cam's dizzy-drive-gear(the CAM turns the Dizzy).......
You can tell me more, I'm sure, on the 3.0 timing belt change! lol. Gimme a day or so and I'd be able to do it... but right now? I'd have to look it up.

ONE question; Did you jump the diagnostic port when setting your timing? I know this was mentioned, ...not sure if you answered. Again, not sure on the VeeZee, but fairly certain you have to jump the T and E1 terminals before you set the timing.... OTHERWISE, if you set it to 10*BTDC without it jumped...... That's ACTUALLY around 18*BTDC.... That will BADLY lean it out. Lemme know, k?

Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 05-27-2012 at 07:53 PM.
Old 05-29-2012, 03:52 PM
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Just got back from my trip to AZ where I drove more than 650 miles. The best highway mpg I got was 16.

Yota, I did the continuity check on the TPS sensor and it checked out fine, however when I disconnect the connector while the engine is running, the idle doesn't go up or down. Also, I've noticed that while the engine is on, the adjustable screw on the TPS vacuum modulator never touches the TPS plate (during idle or when accelerating). Is there something wrong here??
Old 05-29-2012, 08:09 PM
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Wow, "TPS VACUUM MODULATOR"????? wth is that? Hmmmm....Sorry, I have no idea what kind of 'dash pot' style system you have(if you even have a dash pot, lol)...

OK> If you read 4crawlers tutorial on this...CAREFULLY... It says, "throttle plate stop screw has to be adjusted before even attempting to adjust the TPS". The DASH POT(which I have) stopper HAS to be engaged when the throttle plate arm is coming down(it's meant to slow down the plate's closing/to stop it from slamming shut, rather, it causes it to get to 1000rpm and then gradually, from there, reach the bottom/// 800RPM is my guess for yours?????? ) BUT, I can't say if the dash pot stop screw has to touch(I'd have to visually see what you're talking about, man, sorry).

The throttle plate stop screw is different(at least on mine)..... What you do is unscrew the locking nut of the 2 nuts on the adjustment screw/bolt... Then loosen the adjustment nut... THEN, screw the bolt down until it JUST touches.... 'THEN TURN IT ANOTHER QUARTER TURN'... SO, literally turn it 90 degrees from when it FIRST touches the PLATE'S stopping point. What this does is force the throttle plate to ALWAYS be open around 3 degrees(whatever, lol)... NEVER allowing it to FULLY close is the key. At idle, that's the setting that matters so much before you start 'TRYING TO ADJUST IT'. ALSOOOOOOOOO; If you 'checked your TPS resistance specs' while the throttle plate stop screw was NOT adjusted first.... THEN YOUR CHECK COULD VERY WELL be inaccurate. (is that making sense a lil bit now? That stop plate stop screw, if it's not making contact with the stop plate/putting tension on it, actually, til it is open a lil on the throttle body throttle plate.... then it's not 'TURNING' the dial in the TPS to the point where it's SUPPOSED to be, first. Once you have the stop screw set, THEN you check and adjust TPS if necessary)>>>>> DO YOU GET THAT? hahahahahaha. If I have time, I will show you what it's like to be done on MINE, a 22RE Throttle Body. I mean, I'm not even sure YOU DO mean "dash pot", lol... AS a matter of fact, I don't even think yours has one! lol.
Old 05-29-2012, 08:19 PM
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Hey chef, failed again today, but got the vacuum leaks fixed, now I just need to clean out the EGR itself. Then hopefully the cat is good *fingers crossed* probably won't have time to fix it until this weekend though
Old 05-29-2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SCToy
Hey chef, failed again today, but got the vacuum leaks fixed, now I just need to clean out the EGR itself. Then hopefully the cat is good *fingers crossed* probably won't have time to fix it until this weekend though
WOW! That's frustrating, isn't it? lol. Did it do better, SC? <<< YEP, have a half pot of Joe and start tearing that crap apart! lol. Did you try blowing through the t-fitting inlet on the side of the EGR pipe to see if it flows freely back through the head? You'll see if it's clogged up at the head/EGR mating surface... BUT, might try to stick a hose in there and blow toward the exhaust side of the head to see if it's all plugged up in the block plate, etc., ya know? (You're talking about a 22RE in your case, right? lol)
Old 05-30-2012, 06:54 AM
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It's actually my 81, so it's carbed. I'm take the EGR apart this weekend and see what's up with it. Still have no idea if it will pass the emissions part, been taking it to a pass or don't pay smog station, so they won't test it until I get the EGR working.
Old 05-30-2012, 07:37 AM
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Chef, sorry about my "wording"... it was the dash pot for the TPS that I was trying to describe earlier. I did a search... if you go to this link and look at the picture in post #1 (what's circled in green) to see what I'm talking about:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...estion-203994/

On my truck, the stop from the dash pot never touches the stop screw during idle or when I rev it up. When revving the engine (anything over idle) I have noticed that the dash pot stop retracts (when more vacuum is applied to it, which is how it's supposed to work). Will look up the section in the FSM to adjust this properly. From what it sounds like, the dash pot effects the idle (or something to do with idle), but does it have anything to do with the check engine light I'm getting and the bad mpg??
Old 05-30-2012, 11:06 AM
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Hey Lankan...

Not sure how it's set up on the 94 VeeZee... I'd HAVE to look(will do asap). I tried the first couple times to adjust my 'throttle stop setting' by the dash pot stop.... And I was wrong. It's on the opposite side of the throttle body that I had to adjust the 'throttle stop screw'....

If you look on 4crawlers site/link/tutorial, you'll see what I'm talking about....

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml

If you've not read and reread that a couple times, .... well, TRUST ME, you'll find, most likely, the answer as to whether you should bother with this TPS or not/how to adjust it PROPERLY, etc.... See the picture on the left of 3 that says, "feeler gauge placement"?? Click on the picture and it will blow it up so you can see better. THAT is where you make your adjustment. I have an 87 22RE, but I will look today to see if my dash pot stop screw is actually touching, ok? Remember, the dash pot ONLY slows down the 'closing of the throttle plate'. And I think our set ups for the dash pot may be slightly different. But it has an actuator in there that you can free up with silicone lube. DO NOT use WD40, etc. SILICONE LUBRICANT ONLY! lol(also in the 4crawler page).

Copied from the 4crawler(Roger's) site;

Dash Pot:
The GREEN CIRCLE shows the dash pot (DP) which is there to slow the closing of the throttle to prevent backfiring. It consists of the round air bellows, a spring loaded plunger, and the air vent line that attaches to the fitting at the base of the bellows. The vent line has a check valve in-line and an air filter to keep dirt out. The check valve lets air into the bellows then the throttle opens and extends the plunger. When the throttle closes, the stop screw contacts the plunger and pushes it in. The check valve closes to slow the air escaping the bellows and thus slow the closing of the throttle.
To troubleshoot the DP, make sure the air filter is clean and make sure the check valve is not clogged or stuck open. You should be able to blow air into the bottom easily (filling the bellows) but it should be hard to suck air out. Both the filter and valve can probably be cleaned with a mild solvent. Also, the plunger can stick. I find a shot of silicone spray applied to it periodically helps keep it moving freely. Lube it the push it in and out fully a few times to work the lubricant down into the plunger. And you can simpy back the adjuster screw all the way back to keep it from contacting the throttle linkage as a test. This way it is eliminated from affecting the throttle operation, in case you think it may be causing a problem.
To adjust the DP, I find setting the stop screw to depress the plunger about 1/2 of it's travel works well. If set too deep, you have more spring force to overcome and that can cause the throttle to not fully close. Too shallow and the DP can't really do it's job.
Throttle Stop Screw:
The other item that scan affect the TPS adjustment is the Throttle Stop Screw. The stop screw controls the amount of closure for the throttle plate inside the throttle body. It must be set properly BEFORE adjusting the TPS itself. How is this done? The stop screw is set so that the throttle plate is fully closed inside the throttle body, then it is turned in to contact the throttle linkage and then 1/4 turn more before tightening the jam nut to lock it in place. This is done so that the throttle plate is held just barely off fully close to prevent it from sticking inside the throttle body.


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